What represents parrying in core D&D?

[Li Shenron]

Got to answer this question to some players and I came up with as an explanation on the fly that Fighting Defensively and the feat Combat Expertise represented parrying:

Fighting Defensively can be done only when attacking (single or full attack) and may represent a basic parrying that everyone can do without specific training, but as such it is not very effective, and it doesn't scale with BAB (although Tumble increases the bonus). The penalty to attacks repreesnt the fact that you are using the weapon to defend yourself rather than attacking: when you don't fight defensively, you are not parrying but you use the weapon at its best offensive capability.
In reality, FD is probably a combination of both dodging and parrying.

However FD can be done also when attacking with a ranged weapon, which cannot be explained as parrying!

Combat Expertise is more likely the real parrying technique, it requires some basic training (taking the feat) and improves with the character's general fighting ability (BAB) although only up to a point (+5).
It still requires to be attacking and it works only in melee, that's why I think it could be parrying, but again it can be seen as a combination of dodging and parrying.

I also thought about Total Defense, but I didn't mention it because you can do it even when unarmed...

Let's not be too pedantic about the fact that the bonuses have the dodge type. Probably parrying would deserve a deflection or shield* type, but the important thing here is to make the bonus stack.

*for example Two-Weapon Defense gives a shield bonus, that's definitely another kind of parrying, specifically associated to 2WFing

Any thoughts?

 

[Shin Okada]

Fast of all, all the combatants are supposed to be parrying and dodging in some degree. That is represented by the fact that AC is modified by dex bonus (remember inanimate object and immobilized creatures have effective dex of 0, thus -5 modifier).

Then, almost any defensive options may or may not including some degree of parrying. The most obvious one is, as you have already suggested, Two-Weapon-Defense feat. But with all the other defensive options, the character may be parrying more intensively than usual.

By the way, have you took your handle from the hero in Haruka Takachiho's novel?

 

[Thyrwyn]

hit points, too.

 

[reanjr]

I think you basically hit it. Combat Expertise is the parrying. The reason you get a penalty to Attack Bonus is that you are too busy using the weapon for defense. I think fighting defensively and total defense are more avoidance.

Then, of course, D&D is an abstract system. The ssumption is that everyone's parrying all the time. That's part of one's AC.

If your players are wanting an explanation of parrying because they want more options, I suggest granting an additional dodge bonus to certain weapons when used to fight defensively (sai is the only one that I can think of off hand, but you could introduce the main-gauche or the parrying dagger). +2 works well in my group.

 

[Darklone]

Yeah. Hit points.

 

[Thanee]

Attacks of Opportunity, IMHO.

Characters are assumed to parry (or dodge or whatever) automatically, but when they do not, they provoke Attacks of Opportunity.

Bye
Thanee

 

[dcollins]

Let's not be too pedantic about the fact that the bonuses have the dodge type. Probably parrying would deserve a deflection or shield* type, but the important thing here is to make the bonus stack.

*for example Two-Weapon Defense gives a shield bonus, that's definitely another kind of parrying, specifically associated to 2WFing

Sword & Fist had a feat specifically called "Off-Hand Parry" which let you trade off-hand attacks for a +2 dodge bonus to AC. Did that possibly get renamed at some point?

 

[Liquidsabre]

*oops*

 

[Hypersmurf]

I think you basically hit it. Combat Expertise is the parrying.

Combat Expertise can be cinematically described as parrying, but don't get caught in the trap of assuming it's always parrying.

For example, if you are missed by the Disintegrate ray only because of the Dodge bonus from Combat Expertise, that doesn't mean your sword is disintegrated. In that case, the Expertise bonus might represent agilely ducking under the ray.

But the same Expertise bonus might represent parrying a spear thrust or knocking an arrow aside with your blade.

It's a little like Cleave - you can say "You chop through one goblin and into the next" to describe a successful Cleave with an axe... but that doesn't mean you should disallow Cleaving with a rapier. It just needs to be described differently.

-Hyp.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

In the D&D abstract system, you are always parrying. Say two 1st-level fighters are in combat. They might each strike at the other a half-dozen times in that six seconds. Five of those attacks are parried or dodged, while the single attack that has a chance to actually do damage is represented by the PC's single attack roll. As PCs gain levels, more attacks are skillful enough to penetrate a defender's active defense (thus giving the attacker more attack rolls). But parrying is assumed from level 1.