D&D General What Should Magic Be Able To Do, From a Gameplay Design Standpoint?

[Micah Sweet]

There's a subset of fiction where someone can be 'just that good' that things seem like magic. Anime can have it, but you also see it in stuff like the smoke knights in Girl Genius where they are effectively invisible and can steal/replace-with-something-else your hostage or the weapon you are holding without you noticing, etc. Likewise combatants can move from safe distance to right up in your face (with a knife in your ribs) in a literal eyeblink. In D&D terms, it wouldn't be magic, but could replicate many* magic abilities short of flying or dimensional travel (and certainly could be presented in a similar fashion to spells**). A line attack wouldn't be magic, they are just charging through an area taking a slice at every opponent in turn. Teleporting is just moving such that no one notices you between points A and B. And similar.
*especially if you take a rather liberal interpretation of 'realism' for things like running up a wall, what can be accomplished in an eye-blink, and so on.
**and honestly magic, psionics, Bo9S maneuvers, and various feats are mechanically all just modular rule exception text blocks.

Your footnote is the clincher here. Just exactly how liberal your interpretation of realism shakes out is the issue, and the battles lines are drawn.

 

[GobHag]

I'll kill realism like a snail on a beach.

 

[TheSword]

There's a subset of fiction where someone can be 'just that good' that things seem like magic. Anime can have it, but you also see it in stuff like the smoke knights in Girl Genius where they are effectively invisible and can steal/replace-with-something-else your hostage or the weapon you are holding without you noticing, etc. Likewise combatants can move from safe distance to right up in your face (with a knife in your ribs) in a literal eyeblink. In D&D terms, it wouldn't be magic, but could replicate many* magic abilities short of flying or dimensional travel (and certainly could be presented in a similar fashion to spells**). A line attack wouldn't be magic, they are just charging through an area taking a slice at every opponent in turn. Teleporting is just moving such that no one notices you between points A and B. And similar.
*especially if you take a rather liberal interpretation of 'realism' for things like running up a wall, what can be accomplished in an eye-blink, and so on.
**and honestly magic, psionics, Bo9S maneuvers, and various feats are mechanically all just modular rule exception text blocks.

Can this not be done to a certain extent already?

A 4th level Fighter could quick as lightning interpose their shield in front of a friend to force disadvantage on the attacker or get a free attack on the attacker reducing them knocking them to the ground and preventing them getting back up… as a reaction.

A 3rd level Fighter could instantly yank a friend out of harms way and shield them with a +1d8 bonus to AC at the same time.

A 4th level Fighter could automatically pass a mental saving throw each short rest.

A 5th level Fighter could run 60 feet, attacking 4 different people along the way knocking them down to the ground as they go

A 5th level Fighter could attack 4 adjacent foes (a 5th if one drops to 0 hp) and automatically blast them away 10ft if they hit.

An 5th level fighter could attack a whopping 6 times in 6 seconds - putting John Wick to shame.

If some of this stuff isn’t amazing enough even at low level then I don’t know what to say.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Can this not be done to a certain extent already?

A 4th level Fighter could quick as lightning interpose their shield in front of a friend to force disadvantage on the attacker or get a free attack on the attacker reducing them knocking them to the ground and preventing them getting back up… as a reaction.

A 3rd level Fighter could instantly yank a friend out of harms way and shield them with a +1d8 bonus to AC at the same time.

A 4th level Fighter could automatically pass a mental saving throw each short rest.

A 5th level Fighter could run 60 feet, attacking 4 different people along the way knocking them down to the ground as they go

A 5th level Fighter could attack 4 adjacent foes (a 5th if one drops to 0 hp) and automatically blast them away 10ft if they hit.

An 5th level fighter could attack a whopping 6 times in 6 seconds - putting John Wick to shame.

If some of this stuff isn’t amazing enough even at low level then I don’t know what to say.

Yeah, a lot of that is already pretty unbelievable on the face of it, to me anyway.

 

[Corinnguard]

Shhh...thinking that way leans towards heresy, and even worse, 4e.

Or thinking that way could lean towards something better when you level up.

 

[Tonguez]

Yeah, a lot of that is already pretty unbelievable on the face of it, to me anyway.

what specifically in that list and why?

 

[Micah Sweet]

what specifically in that list and why?

Auto-passing a saving throw and six attacks in six seconds are the worst offenders.

 

[Reynard]

six attacks in six seconds are the worst offenders.

Have you ever watched profession armored "medieval" MMA? You might be surprised at how fast fully armored fighters can swing a sword or axe.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Have you ever watched profession armored "medieval" MMA? You might be surprised at how fast fully armored fighters can swing a sword or axe.

I'm open to being shown the error of my ways. Still not a fan of auto-success.

 

[Tonguez]

An 5th level fighter could attack a whopping 6 times in 6 seconds - putting John Wick to shame.

Auto-passing a saving throw and six attacks in six seconds are the worst offenders.

In Fist of Fury Bruce Lee delivers 9 punches in 2 seconds (the flurry of blows is a real thing), even a sword can strike 2 times per second - 6 seconds is a surprisingly long time.

Autopassing a mental saving throw simulates extreme discipline or similar. Storys about spies resisting torture or Conan overcoming psychic domination both fit. Its a boon but not magic
(NB I'm not a fan of autosuccess either, I'd prefer to be a bonus to save. Its also why I think spellcasting should be a skill instead of autosuccess)