D&D General What Should Magic Be Able To Do, From a Gameplay Design Standpoint?

[Yaarel]

Here is a reallife 3D printed town, Wolfs Ranch in Texas, mainly constructed by robots.

D&D magic includes widescale elemental fabrication of wizard towers, fortresses, etcetera. This kind of magic item crafting is awesome for various magical bastions.

Despite the fact that the majority, low-level tiers are medievalesque, a minority, high-level tiers are decisively analogous to future tech and superhero genres.

 

[pemerton]

Game play around D&D revolves around adventuring, ergo it follows the purpose of magic is primarily to support the main activity players are engaging in. This is the primary reason why most settings haven't put a lot of thought into the long term ramifications of certain spells. It doesn't matter because we're here to adventure not worry about nerd stuff like the economy.

This is the usual explanation, but I really find it quite unsatisfying. It makes the PCs separate from the world they presumably were born into and grew up in, because the rules only care about them.

Huh? @MGibster's explanation is not an in-fiction proposition. It's an actual explanation for why a game is written/designed a certain way - namely (and unsurprisingly) - the game is written/designed to support play.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Huh? @MGibster's explanation is not an in-fiction proposition. It's an actual explanation for why a game is written/designed a certain way - namely (and unsurprisingly) - the game is written/designed to support play.

But that design philosophy IMO unavoidably translates to the setting, because the players are running PCs mechanically designed for that philosophy living in that world. As I see it, it becomes in-fiction unless you force it to do otherwise, which would be IMO a narrative lean.

 

[pemerton]

There's an intent between spells that take the classic 1 action (combat), ones that take 1 minute (exploring, divination, the like), 10 minutes (rituals) and 1 hour -- sometimes I'd prefer a more powerful effect on paper e.g. A column of flame that vortexes down from the sky, to strike enemies in a 5-10 foot radius vs. a lightning bolt that erupts from one's finger tips, to take longer.

4e explored this sort of design with the original assassin class (that had to spend multiple rounds sticking debuffs on a foe to get the pay-off) and it didn't work. The problem with this is that it creates frustrating play, for two reasons:

*It's boring to have to wait for the pay-off of your action, in a context where other players are getting immediate pay-off;

*The round-by-round change in circumstances creates a high risk of the planning/build-up turning into a great fizzer (eg the targeted foe(s) get killed, or flee, or move, before your stuff reaches its crescendo).

 

[pemerton]

wizardly magic, and to a lesser degree the spell system in general, as it is presented in official D&D, does appear to operate on consistent, nigh-scientific laws mechanically.

if - as is usually the default case - a caster has to say x words precisely and do y motions exactly in order to consistently produce z spell effect, that seems mighty science-y to me.

Rites aren't science. More like the opposite thereof!

Arcane magic would almost have to be a science. Through trial and error, an arcane spellcaster would have to figure out which words of power, hand gestures, and material components could work together to produce the desired effect. They would also be trying to figure out new ways to cast old spells.

And cooking isn't science either.

 

[pemerton]

There is no edition where the Wizard class has had actual "I am part of an academic community" mechanic. No mechanic for actually doing spell research beyond "DM Says"

Huh? Classic D&D has rules for doing spell research that are more than just "DM says".

 

[pemerton]

Spellcasting should absolutely be a skill! Of course, I've never met a group that wouldn't have at least one player riot if the idea was suggested.

Interesting. I think every RPG I've played since 1990 has assumed that using magic, as an action, will activate the standard action resolution rules the same as any other action.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Interesting. I think every RPG I've played since 1990 has assumed that using magic, as an action, will activate the standard action resolution rules the same as any other action.

But in D&D there's no chance of failure unless your attempt is literally interrupted. Not missing the attack (if it's an attack), the possibility of spell failure. That's what causes the riot.

 

[James Gasik]

Rites aren't science. More like the opposite thereof!

And cooking isn't science either.

What, you've never heard of molecular gastronomy?

 

[Lanefan]

I'd like magic to make almost no damage at all. Leave damage to other classes.

Which class becomes the area-effect blast artillery, then; or how would a-o-e blast artillery be achieved?