D&D 3E/3.5 What spells got the greatest buff from 3e to 5e?

[CapnZapp]

Sleep now retains its usefulness throughout the game, due to scaling in higher spell slots--and the fact that it works based on current hp.

This is also too soon to say.

If anything, indications are that monster hp scale up much faster than spell slot scaling.

If that is generally true, then spell slot scaling should not be viewed as more than a consolation prize for those spellcasters who have high level slots but no high level spells. (Such as multiclassed spellcasters, who at first blush are "fixed" compared to 3e, but might very well in actual 5e gameplay prove to be borked still, only less borked than before)

 

[CapnZapp]

Which keeps throwing me off, as Chill Touch is neither a touch spell, nor does it deal cold damage

The spell isn't called "cold touch". Chill Touch refers to "the touch from beyond the grave" and as such the "chill" part is perfectly acceptable to me.

Furthermore, there are no "touch attacks" in 5th ed. And so the "touch" part is also perfectly acceptable to me, since that terms lack any specific meaning beyond what the spell already says.

You simply need to remove your d20 glasses, Sir!

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

The spell isn't called "cold touch". Chill Touch refers to "the touch from beyond the grave" and as such the "chill" part is perfectly acceptable to me.

And here I thought it would cause deep relaxation and contentedness, sufficient to soothe a savage beast.

The spell of course requires a verbal component of "Dude, chill!"

 

[Mistwell]

Faerie Fire got a huge boost

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Just because a spell does more damage in 5e than in 3e does not mean it has been "buffed" or is more worth having.

Theoretical example:

If all monsters have double hit points in 5e compared to 3e, then Fireball have actually been nerfed, even though it goes from 5d6 to 8d6.

A direct damage comparison between editions can be misleading.

True. I'm (intentionally) taking the non-relative perspective straight from the spellbook. You can get very different results when you take relativity into account.

For instance, the debates over the power of 5e characters versus 3e characters at very low levels. I find it patently obvious that if you create them straight out of the PHB the 5e characters blow away the 3e characters if you stuck them in the same adventuring party. But I have no disagreement whatsoever that the very low level 3e characters are more effective than 5e characters versus the threats that they are likely to be facing at those levels in their respective edition. (5e goblins are much nastier than 3e goblins, for instance.)

Spells in 5e often do more damage at lower levels, but less damage later on since they don't scale automatically with caster level anymore. Magic missile, for example, does 3d4 + 3 at level 1. But it doesn't scale. In 3e, it did up to 5d4 + 5 at level 9+ while still using a 1st level slot.

Yes. That's a mechanic hardcoded into the system, and as such is appropriate to discuss in a relative comparison of power. The approach I was taking was what I might call "Spells As Written," straight from the spellbooks. I think is also of merit in comparing power. A lot of factors must be taken into account making relative comparisons complex and dependent on unknown or difficult to predict variables (such as what threats are encounters, player skill, and DM rules adjudication). By contrast, simple "Spells as Written" comparisons can provide useful information which does not depend on unknown variables to such a degree. It isn't a complete picture, but it's a part that is helpful.

For instance, it might come into play when dealing with monsters that have spellcasting, where regular and innate spellcasting interact a bit differently.

This is also too soon to say.

If anything, indications are that monster hp scale up much faster than spell slot scaling.

If that is generally true, then spell slot scaling should not be viewed as more than a consolation prize for those spellcasters who have high level slots but no high level spells. (Such as multiclassed spellcasters, who at first blush are "fixed" compared to 3e, but might very well in actual 5e gameplay prove to be borked still, only less borked than before)

Agreed that multiclass casters are still borked.

I'm not disagreeing overall. Relative comparisons probably are more useful in final analysis.

 

[garydee]

Clone is much better than previous editions. You can basically become immortal with no downside. No need to become a lich any more in order to live forever.

 

[the Jester]

This is also too soon to say.

If anything, indications are that monster hp scale up much faster than spell slot scaling.

Hmm.

While this is/may be true, I think the fact that you are far more likely to face lower-level opponents (and still be challenged by them) in 5e helps things like scaling sleep or damage spells remain competitive.

 

[Stalker0]

I think it's in error but only true res will not bring back a character that died of old age.

Raise deAd and res do not have that note

 

[WarHawke]

Magic Missile doesn't scale in 5e? I could have sworn it did (not having my PHB in front of me). You are able to split the missiles (you get 3 of them to start) to hit multiple or the same target.


Yes, Clone is way way way better in 5e. Instead of Reincarnate all the time (poor man's immortality), now you can clone. However, the true question is... can you clone a clone and if so, how many times? Or do you clone yourself once, then stasis your body and chop it up into 1" cube chunks for more clones? Wow... that spell is so OP.

Shield is awesome. Level 18 wizard until it gets some outstanding overusage (unlimited level 1 castings for 2 spells).

Find Steed. Great spell for Bards and Paladins or Wish users. A horse that never dies, and can look like pretty much anything you want. Plus Telepathy within a mile radius and it has a minimum of 6 int and understands one language that you know. What????

Guidance... cantrip is... basically +d4 to a single die roll. and can be used every round.

Polymorph, wildshape, shapechange.... Have 100 HP in your new form and lost 90 hp? Cancel the spell and now you have your HP before you changed.

Detect Magic... Ritual... no more need to waste a spell slot memorizing it. Ever.

Find Familiar... No negatives, it is the same familiar when it "dies" you just re-summon it (for 10 gold) and change it's body type. Scouting? Bird. Going underwater? Octopus... and it has telepathy within 100 Feet. Going on land with that octopus? Dismiss it in its OWN pocket dimension until you summon it back.


The downside? Other than Mage Armor and Shield (which is not a buff) there isn't much in the way of protecting the wizard/sorcerer with spells that boost AC. You need to use spells like Blur, Bane, Mirror Image, etc.

 

[Falling Icicle]

Magic Missile doesn't scale in 5e? I could have sworn it did (not having my PHB in front of me). You are able to split the missiles (you get 3 of them to start) to hit multiple or the same target.

The only spells that scale automatically at higher levels are cantrips. For all other spells, the only way to get greater effect is to cast them using a higher level spell slot. (Just to be clear, I have absolutely no problem with this, I was only bringing it up for comparison).