D&D General Hot Take: D&D Has Not Recovered From 2E to 3.0 Transition

[Voadam]

As I recall it's less that they were invented, and more that, with prayer, meditation and offerings, you convince your deity to grant you the new spell. The Tome of Magic points out that Gods can have access to other Spheres and spells than those they normally grant, but in times of need or crisis, can suddenly grant access to their priests (this was done to explain the new Spheres printed in that book, as well as the existence of Quest spells that exceeded the normal power level of Clerical magic).

Tome of Magic says

"The introduction of new priest spheres can pose a logical problem in some campaigns--if an existing Power has influence in a certain sphere, why did his priests never have these spells before? Why do they wake up one morning and suddenly have access to spells never before seen?
The DM can use several solutions to this question. The first is most effective for such esoteric spheres as Thought and Numbers. In this case, few (if any) existing Powers have access to these spheres. Instead, priests arrive (as did wild mages) from distant lands, spreading the word of their god. These NPC priests have strange powers never before seen. In some locations, they may be accepted, while in others, they may be driven out with vengeance. As new player characters are created, this "new" faith with all its advantages and disadvantages becomes an option.
Another explanation, particularly useful for the spheres of War and Wards, is that the Power always had access to these spells, but never had the need to grant them. A deity of war could reasonably withhold spells of the War sphere until the threat of war exists. To introduce the War sphere into the campaign, the DM need only create a little border tension and massing of troops -- the perfect background for many adventures.
Certain deities may be too aloof or remote to become involved in the affairs of men until the need arises. This is particularly appropriate for the spheres of Law and Chaos. A shift in the "harmony of the universe" might warrant the attention of these Powers to "set things right."
The introduction of subdivisions in the elemental sphere can be effected in a similar manner. Foreign priests may enter the campaign region and introduce the concept, or existing priests might discover their own deities suddenly taking a more active interest in their spells. Conflict or rivalry on the elemental planes can be used to justify rigid adherence to a particular element. A fire god, feeling the rising power of a sea god, may enforce strict elemental selection to bolster the devotion of his priests.
Of all the new priest material, quest spells are the easiest to introduce. These are given by the DM only when special conditions warrant. It is easy to justify that conditions have never yet warranted the need for quest spells."

So ToM mostly poses it as a narrative problem of introducing new spells, and suggests some narrative solutions for introducing them. If you have stuff from the beginning there is no narrative problem of new spells.

 

[Voadam]

I think less so in 1e? They were strongly focusing on a particular model instead of all fantasy pantheons

1e AD&D had less new spells developed over the course of the edition so it is less of a thing. Mostly Unearthed Arcana and a bunch of Forgotten Realms articles/sourcebooks which started pumping them out in 1e, but really ran wild across 2e.

 

[glass]

the important point is it did infact shut down, something important to remember when thinking about trusting WotC with a digital only purchase that is locked behind a severer.

TBF, they did give a few weeks warning, so anything that could be downloaded (ie Dungeon and Dragon) could be downloaded. I got quite a few of them, but I still kick myself that I ran out of time to and did not download them all. Doesn't help with the CB or Compendium of course.

"Players and DMs should be aware that while the standard rule is that priests have free access to all spells on their respective lists, a more useful ruling is to use all common spells in allowed spheres.

I think you may have bolded the wrong bit. AIUI, @Alzrius's point was that that not all the spells in those 288 pages would be in the "allowed spheres" for any given priest. EDIT: Actually, they said "notwithstanding sphere access" so I might have got the WEOTS. EDIT2: Although even if it wasn't their point it can be mine: 2e Priests had access to a lot of spells from the start and especially by the end of the edition, but not quite as many as those page counts might suggest.

 

[Yora]

There was a time when WotC had a lot of AD&D books for Forgotten Realms as free downloads on their website. Until they were gone.

My copies of The Savage Frontier, The North, and Volo's Guide to the North are actually still from that free download.

 

[Zardnaar]

There was a time when WotC had a lot of AD&D books for Forgotten Realms as free downloads on their website. Until they were gone.

My copies of The Savage Frontier, The North, and Volo's Guide to the North are actually still from that free download.

I still have some of them as well.

 

[Dausuul]

They shut DDi down in January 2020, well after the period for which we had minimum figures and well past well past the end of 4e as current edition. Nobody thinks it was still making massive money into the 5e era, but it was making enough that they kept it going for 5.5 years. Damn those inconvenient facts, getting in the way of your edition warring!

Edition warring? I played 4E and liked it. There are several mechanical elements of 4E that I wish they would incorporate into 1D&D. And I still mourn the return to the creaky old Great Wheel cosmology after the brilliant redesign of the World Axis.

None of that has anything to do with whether DDI was a cash cow. It clearly was not, or 5E would never have happened.

 

[billd91]

For Corporations, just being profitable isn't enough sometimes as well.

I'm fairly positive that Hasbro had set certain ROI thresholds. And if their 'opportunity cost' thresholds were not met - they pull the plug based on the idea that they could make 'more money' investing in something else.

Yes, it's pretty clear that they did (the whole core brands thing). But they also had some other issues to maintain - brand strength, loyalty, and market position. And 4e was delivering negatives there.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

None of that has anything to do with whether DDI was a cash cow. It clearly was not, or 5E would never have happened.

For sure.

I love 4E, and I loved DDI, but whilst it was a lot faster and smoother to use than, say D&D Beyond (which is a fairly unresponsive app with a poor quality search design and still arguably less functionality than the DDI rules-wise), it felt very much like a niche product, maybe in late beta, rather than something professional and which you'd be happy to show a non-player or new player.

Even the billing was incompetent, via Digital River. At one point they started billing me twice, wouldn't stop doing it, for months, and eventually they refunded me after repeated complaints, but for like 30% more than I was actually owed (by my calculations). I was far from the only one with billing issues with them, I know from discussion at the time.

It was definitely not the sort of product you'd have if you were making tons of money of it.

 

[Lanefan]

Clerics have always had open ended control and a lot of versatility.*

*(4e being the exception by limiting their spells/powers instead of choosing from everything any day).

By the end of 2e there were three 288 page volumes of the priest's spell compendium for clerics to choose spells from each game day.

Keep in mind many of those spells were setting-specific and thus not open to all, and were called out as such by a symbol next to the write-ups.

 

[glass]

Edition warring?

Yes, edition warring. You were pushing the edition-warrior lie of 4e being a financial failure, when in fact it was stupendously successful by any standard other than "Hasbro Core Brand". I cannot read your mind as to your motivations for doing that, so if you quack like a duck I am going to think you're a duck.