What Tech Level is the Hobbit?

[jester47]

Akrasia,

Let me clean up what I am trying to say. You are right, the elves remained elves an the humans remained humans, he never actually made any changes. The thing I read, and I have no idea where it was, he stated that he wanted the elves to be higher beings but thought that "elves" were a bad name because it conjured up in the mind those little guys that help santa. He said if he could rewrite it all the races (baring humans of course) woud not be named after some fairy tale version of the little people. I incorrectly made the assumption that this meant that they would have all been the same with differnt cultural traits being the only thing that really separated them and determined their life spans. You would still have beings that acted and lived dwarves, but they would be called the "Stone Peoples" or somthing like that in one of his languages. It was a notion that bled over.

But I have no clue where I read it. I was while I was waiting for someone in a book store I think.

My point was that this gave the impression that as he got older he started to regret how he wrote it and I was saying that he should have just let it been. I think he thought trying to put the world of the hobbit into the world of his mythology was his big mistake. In a way it was but because of it we have a great story that I would not trade for anything.

 

[Klaus]

There are actually 10 volumes in the series.

The last volume is great simply because it contains two (incomplete) stories that Tolkien wrote after the LotR, one of which takes place in the Fourth Age (in Gondor, after the death of Aragorn). IIR, it's called 'The New Shadow'.

What's the general gist of this story? Me = curious!

 

[Aaron L]

Id never heard that he wanted to name them someting else afterwards, but I have read that he originally called them gnomes. But it doesnt make much difference if he called them something else, they would still have been the same beings. He could have called them foozles and then wed have people all over D&D messageboards complaining about munchkin foozle bladesingers!

He could have even called them smurfs


Three rings for the smurfy kings under the sky
Seven for the dorf lords in thier halls of stone
Nine for mortal mang doomed to die
And one for the dork lord on his dork throne

 

[Dr Simon]

Specifically, the Noldorim were 'gnomes'. Gnomes in the sense of 'gnomic' i.e Wise, Deep, Skilled in Craft. I can't recall now if these were Deep Elves, or High Elves, or if all Noldorim were Deep Elves and only those that went to dwell in Valinor (with other sub-types of elves) became High Elves - the whole elven genealogy thing gets quite confusing! The Noldorim were the ones who made the Silmarils and (most of) the Rings of Power (*) (plus the various magic weapons such as Glamdring, Orcrist and Sting).

I *think* you can use "Eldar" to refer to all of Tolkien's elven-kind. Anyway, his use of "elf" comes from "alfar" of Norse (and, closer, Finnish) mythology. One of his desires was to free the concept of "elf" and "faerie" from what he considered a "sillification" whereby the dangerous realm of the mythological faerie-kind (like the Celtic Sidhe) where a mortal can become fatally ensnared by beauty as much as horror, became mutated (mostly by Victorians) into a twee realm of little flower fairys and Tinkerbells.

*That's* why he regretted the use of the term 'elf', because people (such as book cover illustrators!) still applied the newer concept and not the old, more lofty, concept.

(*) but not *the* Ring, of course. Sauron used what he had learned from the Noldor, though.

 

[Desdichado]

(*) but not *the* Ring, of course. Sauron used what he had learned from the Noldor, though.

True, but the Noldor also used all kinds of things that they learned from Sauron, too, in the making of the other Rings of Power. Don't forget, Sauron was originally of the people of Aulë, and was extremely knowledgeable and skillful when it came to making things.

 

[Dr Simon]

True, but the Noldor also used all kinds of things that they learned from Sauron, too, in the making of the other Rings of Power. Don't forget, Sauron was originally of the people of Aulë, and was extremely knowledgeable and skillful when it came to making things.

Ah yes, good point. And Saruman was originally a Maia of Aulë. In Tolkien's mythology knowing how to make stuff makes you more prone to hubris and evil.

As for the original question, I recall early on in the days of the LoTR film that the makers had decided that the Hobbits were going to be quite anachronistic in dress and possessions compared to the other races - closer to the start of the Industrial Revolution.

 

[lukelightning]

I exect more debate on this subject when Steven Spielberg releases the "Special Edition Lord of the Rings" in which all swords, bows, knives, axes, maces, flails, spears, lances, and other dangerous items are digitally replaced with walkie-talkies.

 

[lukelightning]

In Tolkien's world: Technology=bad, Feudalism=good.

Ah yes, good point. And Saruman was originally a Maia of Aulë. In Tolkien's mythology knowing how to make stuff makes you more prone to hubris and evil.

 

[Dryfus]

Ah, but I don't think the fireworks are magical things that only he can make they sound an awful lot like *gasp* technology! Like Sauruman's explosives. Basically it's knowledge kept secret from other people.

And just how many fireworks have you seen that turn into a smoking mountain and dragon and zoom over your head back and forth and explode????

 

[lukelightning]

Yet another thing that bugs me about the Good Guys in LotR. They have access to these wonderful fireworks that could be of great help in a battle, for illumination, intimidation, or outright offensive purposes. But oh no, lets just rely on "heroism" and "valor" instead of doing anything smart.

And just how many fireworks have you seen that turn into a smoking mountain and dragon and zoom over your head back and forth and explode????