What the hell happened? RHoD (spoilers)

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

My players are still chugging through the RHoD. At this point, it is expected that they would be a party of 4 8th lvl characters. My party is 6 avg. 7th level characters.

In the Ghostlord's lair, they met the lich while attacking its tree in the Shrine of Blight. They were dutifully scared of the thing, but had resolved themselves to destroying him. I, in turn, in my mind had resolved to having to kill them all.

But it didn't happen. They destroyed him. And with relative ease. What happened? What did I miss on this lich's sheet that made a lone spellcaster supposedly that scary against a whole party?

Nothing. NPCs, especially non-spellcasters, are weak for their CR (due to less value in magic items). A lich has to give up two spellcaster levels as well. To top it off, there was only the one lich. He needs a party of his own. Bonedrinkers don't count unless they're intelligent.

 

[MeepoTheMighty]

The main problem is that he's a blighter, which is just a horribly underpowered (though flavorful) class. If he had been a straight druid, he probably would have been more effective.

 

[Victim]

He's 11th level, and the best spell he has prepped according the list above is Flamestrike, a 4th level druid spell. That's not exactly an encouraging sign. In fact, the whole list looks much like something a level 7 or 8 druid would have. It seems likely that blighterdom crippled him.

Probably his best move on the list is to Stinking Cloud, and then stand in it, especially if the fight occurs in a tight space. Characters have to save every round; the lich is immune. It also provides some concealment versus attacks from outside. Ray of Enfeeblment is another effective way to reduce melee damage coming in. Even with nausea reducing his action deficiency, it still doesn't seem like he has enough offense on that list to take out a party.

Even if blighter remains, he could do with picking out a new set of spells. A caster is almost entirely a platform for a spell list, so a bad list makes for a weak caster. It's possible that his spells were made intentionally weak so that the lich was more of a false threat than a real one. He wasn't so competent that he could protect his phylactory afterall.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

this thread is really funny. When played I so wanted a go at this guy. The rest of my party were chicken and did the whole 100 years of peace thing. what a cop out.

 

[Arkhandus]

1) The lich had a terrible set of spells prepared. Really coulda done better.

2) Even with his poor spell choices, he still could've done better with what he had. Open with Stinking Cloud, maneuver while the party can't see him, blast anyone who comes out, cast Poison and then touch whoever looked like the party's mage-type or rogue-type, then proceed to Flame Strike and otherwise blast away at the party's warriors and priests.

As a lich he or she should've been smart enough, wise enough, or Knowledge-able enough to identify on sight which of the party members were probably divine spellcasters (in other words, Reflex-save-bait, so throw Flame Strikes and such at them), which ones were likely the arcane casters or roguish types (aka Touch me and I die!! types, for which the Poison spell and the lich's touch attacks would've been most effective against), and which ones were the melee brutes that he'd have to be wary of (the ones he'd have to use that Ray of Enfeeblement, Rusting Grasp, and Heat Metal against).

3) He should've been wise enough, as a druid and thus Wisdom-based caster, to avoid facing a group of half a dozen adventurers by himself like some kind of fool-idiot. Overconfidence makes no sense for such a character, both as a druid and as a lich. Liches are all about surviving to be 10 billion years old, not stupidly thinking they can survive anything 'just because.'

4) I don't remember if blighters regain their druidic spellcasting or not, but some spontaneous Summon Nature's Ally spells could've helped a bit with the out-numbered thing.

5) The lich should've forced the party to face him on his terms, with a pack of minions/allies at his side as a show of strength and just how bad-arse and commanding he is (even though he's really not, apparently :\ ).

6) For future reference never listen to designers' advice in a module if you think the designer's advice is suspect, or if it doesn't seem to fit the situation of your group specifically.

 

[klofft]

For the few people that have suggested Stinking Cloud as cover while he moves around and does damage, it should be pointed out that he has no way of seeing through the cloud either...

 

[Peni Griffin]

The OP said that the PCs were in a small room, one the GL knows well - his Shrine of Blight. How well does he have to see to cast AOE spells like Heat Metal and Flame Strike into such a space from outside it? Meanwhile, the PCs are trying to get out of the cloud. Using the ghost lion to chivvy them in the desired direction should work.

There are no good or bad spells. There are spells used appropriately, inappropriately, creatively, or mistakenly. Any strategy can fail given the proper countermeasure.

The module, btw, expects the GL to be a tough fight and encourages the DM to encourage the players to make the deal and scamper. So he must've done something big and bad and scary in the playtest, dontcha think? I haven't been impressed by the quality of the groups that did the playtest, but my bunch has a very different style of play than the modulewriters. I think there's a number of things in the module that make life too easy on the players, but many folks on this board have found it to be a meatgrinder. This is what makes horse races.

 

[klofft]

I am the OP.

I'd also like to offer (in my own defense) that my approach to "overconfident" is based on the fact that I came off of 5 years of Champions before returning to D&D. Clearly, overconfident means different things for ancient lichs and Dr. Death-n-Destruction.

I offer this as explanation of why I chose to do things I did. I recognize that I clearly did not play the lich to an optimal level. However, I remain unconvinced that the lich would have been that murderously dangerous to ANY group based solely on the resources described in the adventure itself, without deviating far from the "suggested script" of the designers. I realize I can throw those suggestions out, but as a less experienced DM, I'd like to think their advice would be useful.

 

[Peni Griffin]

Alas, I haven't found anybody's advice to be particularly useful in this game. Everybody's group and the synergy therein is so different that one person's experience doesn't seem to translate well. You can tell by reading the notes that they playtested this thing to death, yet every time I break down an NPC I find something completely boneheaded that apparently worked well in playtest.

The first time I ever ran a module was when I did the Sunless Citadel to kick off this campaign, and every lesson I learned there is being applied to RHOD. The maps are often impractical (Vraath Keep has no well!), common-sense daily usage is often overlooked (A river, and everyone travels by road?), NPCs are often not statted to do their jobs (A spy without Gather Information? I'm sorry, I'll never get over that.), resources are often glossed over (Okay, how many wyverns does the Red Hand have, and why aren't they being used for transport?), and the tactics are often insane in the context of the precedent established by the PCs (Skull Gorge has fallen, and they think *that* force can take Drellin's Ferry with the PCs in residence?). You can't trust them, but you can trust your own answers to the perennial question: "What does this NPC want?" and "How can he best deploy his resources to get it?" Ask yourself those questions in the prep, and you won't go far wrong in play.

Unless, like me, you forget something has DR and let the horses kick it to death...

 

[VirgilCaine]

Unless, like me, you forget something has DR and let the horses kick it to death...

I originally read this as "...and let the horses lick it to death..."