What to do with 1st level orc barbarians

[Runestar]

I know the game can easily be broken like that, which is why I didn't ask how he got his AC so high. I have no idea how you do that and I don't wanna know. It's like playing infinite combos in Magic: the Gathering. You can win on turn 3, but you'll have more fun voluntarily restricting yourself to the decks that play the game the way it was designed. All I was doing was pointing out to him that the way the game comes out of the box, winning on turn 8 is good enough. AC 25 is fine.

To be fair, at one stage of M:TG, you were doing something wrong if your deck was not winning on the first or second turn, and this was with extended.

 

[Noumenon]

you were doing something wrong if your deck was not winning on the first or second turn

No, the designers were doing something wrong. But Shin is right -- I am wrongly criticizing the 30 AC. you don't have to use a lot of tricky feats, just focus a little more than my group does. Sorry about that.

 

[Starbuck_II]

Just to let you know that was my AC formula, but I tru my best to hover close to it.

Okay: 10 + Levelx1.5
Good: 15 + Levelx1.5
Great: 20 + Level x1.5

 

[baradtgnome]

If its the wide range of damage simply from the big hit by the greataxe that is troubling you, start out 1st level orc barbarians with another two handed weapon that does good damage. Just not x3. That way you can introduce orc barbarians at higher levels with more dangerous weapons, giving you the added benefit of making the monster a little different. (avoiding the ho hum, another orc barbarian)

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

If its the wide range of damage simply from the big hit by the greataxe that is troubling you, start out 1st level orc barbarians with another two handed weapon that does good damage. Just not x3. That way you can introduce orc barbarians at higher levels with more dangerous weapons, giving you the added benefit of making the monster a little different. (avoiding the ho hum, another orc barbarian)

That is an excellent suggestion! Not every NPC- Barbarian or not- has to be "ideally" equipped and "optimally" built.

Equipping them with spears would drop the TPK potential, and its still very much a "barbarian's" weapon. Ditto the Greatclub.

Another way to go would be a sword & board build with the very intimidating visage of an Orc Bbn with Morningstar and Spiked Shield. And why not a TWF build with Throwing Axe and club- a favored combo among certain Native American tribes?

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

That is an excellent suggestion! Not every NPC- Barbarian or not- has to be "ideally" equipped and "optimally" built.

Seriously, that is what comes of WotC treating D&D rules the same way as if it were a M:tG tournament for the last, nearly 10 years. When you convince players that the game is a competition between players to make the most powerful, most optimal character, when you convince them that the rules are there to keep the DM in check so that he has to compete with your PC's fairly (otherwise he's cheating), then you get this erroneous mindset that everything in the game should be maximized ALWAYS or you're somehow not doing it right.

I'm convinced that 10 years ago the question would not even have needed to be asked because this answer would have been obvious. The only reason it isn't obvious anymore is because we've been indoctrinated to think of D&D as being competitive, not cooperative.

 

[Runestar]

Except that equipping a barbarian with a greataxe is not the most optimal move there is. A greatsword does slightly more damage on average, and its lower crit multiplier is irrelevant considering that a normal hit alone is sufficient in dropping a PC.

The problem is not so much the weapon he is wielding, but the +9 damage boost he is already getting from his 22 strength (meaning you are assured of at least 10 damage). Anyone who has less than a d10 for hp is going to hit the bucket.

I suppose the next best thing may be to try some other combination, such as the warblade, if you are bent on looking for a cr1 npc. Moment of precise mind lets you counter will-affecting spells such as sleep/colour spray, steel wind lets you hit 2 PCs at once (and your base damage should be low enough that they just might survive), wolf tiger fang for 2 attacks against 1 PC, stone bones for a little bit of dr protection, and maybe punishing stance if you desire that small damage boost. The end result should be a more rounded challenge.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Seriously, that is what comes of WotC treating D&D rules the same way as if it were a M:tG tournament for the last, nearly 10 years. When you convince players that the game is a competition between players to make the most powerful, most optimal character, when you convince them that the rules are there to keep the DM in check so that he has to compete with your PC's fairly (otherwise he's cheating), then you get this erroneous mindset that everything in the game should be maximized ALWAYS or you're somehow not doing it right.

I'm convinced that 10 years ago the question would not even have needed to be asked because this answer would have been obvious. The only reason it isn't obvious anymore is because we've been indoctrinated to think of D&D as being competitive, not cooperative.

Well, I think part of it is the big picture of the Orc/2 with the big axe, coupled with (as I recall) that Power Attack Orc/2 build in the PHB.

And you're right- at least in the sense that there is a player mentality that PCs must be optimized, and that WotC and the 3.X regime offered plenty of fertilizer for that notion to grow.

But I don't think WotC was actively encouraging a "build your PCs like M:tG tournament decks" mentality.

 

[mouser]

Remember that CR 1 is for four party members.

He shouldn't be able to drop all four of them.

Roll for initiative. Do you feel lucky? Well, do ya'... punk.

 

[green slime]

I prefer to leave mine in a marinade over night, and barbeque them slowly over an open flame, until you get a charred finish.