D&D 5E What to do with DM issues?

mafioso420

First Post
This is my scenario, what do you do when you know your DM is fudging the abilities of a monster. EX: Flameskull was in a room flying 40 ft above a 30 ft raised platform for a total of 70 ft up in the air. The DM then has the monster fire it's Eye Beams at will at the PCs, disregarding the limit of 30 ft range for the ability. Now I didn't know about the limit until afterwards when I checked out what we just fought.Would you, if you knew the ability was being fudged or used incorrectly, speak up during the battle? Would you wait till afterwards to say something?
 

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Agamon

Adventurer
Is it possible he made a mistake?

If I knew for sure (which would be pretty tough for a player that hasn't memorized the MM), I'd bring it up, in case it is a mistake, but I wouldn't be argumentative about it. Like Tony says, the monsters don't have to follow the stat block in the MM by the letter. The GM can change the stats however he likes.
 

El Mahdi

Muad'Dib of the Anauroch
This is my scenario, what do you do when you know your DM is fudging the abilities of a monster. EX: Flameskull was in a room flying 40 ft above a 30 ft raised platform for a total of 70 ft up in the air. The DM then has the monster fire it's Eye Beams at will at the PCs, disregarding the limit of 30 ft range for the ability. Now I didn't know about the limit until afterwards when I checked out what we just fought.Would you, if you knew the ability was being fudged or used incorrectly, speak up during the battle? Would you wait till afterwards to say something?

DM's can't use a monster incorrectly. It's simply not possible. If they change a monster, it IS being used correctly. It's not just their prerogative to do so, but it's their responsibility to tailor encounters as they see the need to - and yes, that includes changing or modifying monsters.

Should you speak up in the middle of battle? Absolutely Not. Even more, you don't have that prerogative even after a combat or at any other time.

They run the game, you run your character.


-The DM can freely change whatever they want.

-You (the player) knowing how a monster usually works does not follow that your character also knows (they probably don't).

-And lastly, The DM can freely change whatever they want.


Cheers.
 
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It can be pretty annoying for a DM to have players chipping in, saying things like, "That doesn't work that way." On player-facing rules issues, it is vaguely annoying but still a good thing to do, in the grand scheme of things; but for a monster, you are really running the risk of making a DM feel defensive for trying to quietly adapt a monster to create an entertaining encounter.

The equivalent would be the dreaded Forgotten Realms Expert Player. You know, the one of urban legend, who sits in your game, and corrects you when you give the names of rulers of the dates of events; the one who undermines you by forcing you to listen to their superior knowledge. You don't want to be the equivalent of that guy.

Though I will be the first to admit my great hatred of metagaming in general.
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
Is it possible he made a mistake?

If I knew for sure (which would be pretty tough for a player that hasn't memorized the MM), I'd bring it up, in case it is a mistake, but I wouldn't be argumentative about it. Like Tony says, the monsters don't have to follow the stat block in the MM by the letter. The GM can change the stats however he likes.

Pretty much this. The way it's approached is important too. Judging by internet forums over the past couple decades, some people seem to assume DMs are out to get them maliciously all the time ;)

So do this:

"Isn't the flaming skull 70ft away now? Isn't that more than its 30ft range?"

and don't do this:

"There's no way he can hit us because his range is 30ft and he's 70ft away."

I.e., make it a question rather than a statement. Of course, the other thing is how would your players know? If the DM still says it's within range, then it's within range.
 

jrowland

First Post
...if you knew the ability was being fudged or used incorrectly, speak up during the battle? Would you wait till afterwards to say something?

I would say and do nothing. What you are implying is that the Monster Manual, or the Published Adventure supercedes the DM. This is not true. DM supercedes everything. You don't have DM issues. You have "Play make-believe with others playing make-believe" issues. Guess what? Other people have different visions of make believe.

Did you have fun? Was the battle "cool" or "memorable" beyond being annoyed (for whatever reason) about how the battle played out? If so, there is no problem. The DMs job is provide reasonable challenges. Some "alter" the rules by throw more or less monsters than recommended. Some adjust HP, or attacks, some just wing it. If it bothers you that this DM (or any DM) can change, does change, premeditatively or otherwise, the challenge from the "books", then find another DM or learn to deal with it.

Also, be careful with "talking to" the DM. Could bite you on the butt. If it were me: I'd listen politely, then next game hand you the Monster Manual and then adjust every monster you face such that they did not conform to it. At the end of the game I'd ask, "How was that? Is that better?". Talk to him if you must, but remember its not BADWRONGFUN for him to do what he did. You can not like it, and he can keep doing it, and both would be right.
 

Uller

Adventurer
It depends. If he or she is an experienced DM or at least has a firm grasp on the rules I wouldn't worry about it (and Id likely never notice because I would avoid looking up stat blocks related to a game I am playing in). I'd just assume it is an oversight or he changed it for his own reasons and move on. If it were a newb DM that maybe needed a little guidance (and is open to it) I might gently point it out after the game and away from the table.

Was this a case of missed rules or TotM induced confusion? Soetimes TotM can inject a bit of a fog of war..it's a feature.
 

AriochQ

Adventurer
I wouldn't mind if a player said something like "Isn't that ability limited to 30 feet?". As a DM, I do mess up on occasion and have no problem admitting a mistake.

If I have modified a monster for one reason or another, my response may be "Normally yes, but this one seems to be able to reach 70 feet."

If a player continuously questions my actions as a DM, that is a separate issue which would be dealt with as appropriate.
 

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