D&D 5E What To Do With Racial ASIs?

[DND_Reborn]

Or one person want's to be 'big and strong half-orc' but turns out the party's halfling is just as strong

But another "strong" race, like Dragonborn or Mountain Dwarf, would be perfectly fine, right?

Granted it is a bit weird because IIRC no other class has anything similar.

Something which makes it frickin' awesome!

 

[EscherEnigma]

It looks like a lot of folks are overlooking the key detail that PCs don't play by the same rules as NPCs.

Simply put, regardless of what rules PC character creation goes by, when designing NPCs it doesn't matter what the PHB chapter on race says regarding ability scores. You want that Orc to have a 3 in strength? They can have it! You want a halfling to be stronger then any mortal orc? Give 'em a 22!

For that matter, even with racial bonuses, in 5e everyone is capped at 20, so the strongest orc and strongest halfling are on the same footing in many regards (carrying capacity and things that use size are a different matter).

 

[Crimson Longinus]

But another "strong" race, like Dragonborn or Mountain Dwarf, would be perfectly fine, right?

Sure, because it is their niche too.

 

[DND_Reborn]

It looks like a lot of folks are overlooking the key detail that PCs don't play by the same rules as NPCs.

Exactly, which is why one of my votes was to simply remove them. "Normal" people average 10's. PCs average 12.5ish. They are already universally (averaged) +1 above the norm.

(carrying capacity and things that use size are a different matter)

Which unfortuantely for small and medium creatures, they aren't a different matter.

 

[Derren]

Leave them alone.
Or better, make them even more distinct by bringing back negatives for everyone.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Here is my take on it. I think that there is enough (could add a little more on some maybe) flavor to the various races outside of stat increases that differentiates them from each other. The stat increases represent a generalization of that race overall. Generalization is for NPC's, not PC's. PC's are all about going outside the norm for everything they can do. So a Goliath NPC represents his great strength by having that +2 STR baked into his NPC stat array which makes him "stronger" than the average (NPC) human/elf/dwarf/whatever.

So now tie stat increases to Class and Background. As has been suggested I would not tie a +2 or +1 stat increase to the save proficiencies of that class as that could hurt some builds. The DEX Fighter for example. Giving him a +2 STR does nothing for him. So for each class give, say, a +2 to one primary stat predetermined by class. Maybe Fighters get a choice of STR, DEX, or CON. Then they get a +1 to any other stat of their choice. Backgrounds would then give another +1 appropriate to the Background that cannot stack where the +2 from Class went. So you could get say +1 INT from Scholar but not +1 STR (but Worrgrendel, those books are HEAVY) but you could not put the +1 into INT if that is where you put your +2 from Class. I feel like this would open up more Race/Class combinations for most players that might not be explored otherwise because of the "I gotta max my primary stat or I'm behind the curve" thought process. I know that some people already don't min/max like that (we have a STR based Gnome Fighter in our current campaign) but I feel it does make for more flavorful options (Dwarf Wizard, Half Orc Bard, etc). I also feel like having one +2 and 2 floating +1's helps out those Classes and Subclasses that suffer from MAD.

What about inhuman Elven agility you say, like Legolas? Well, lets think about this for a minute. If you are making a badass Elf Archer like Legolas that skateboards down Olphant trunks and stairs you are maxing your DEX anyhow so why does it matter if the +2 came from Race or Class? But, say you are making an Elf that dumps DEX. Based on the Race giving +2 DEX and you were using point buy, that means your 8 is now a 10. How inhumanely agile is that? Average human is the answer so that +2 DEX is not really representing any kind of inhuman agility normally found in Elves. Plus, maybe I wanted to play an clumsy Elf? I guess he's still clumsy by Elf standards and that just means that Humans are being stereotyped by Elves as being "clumsy"? No thanks.

That sounds entertaining, but IME no one one dumps DeX for any character unless they are intentionally handicapping their competence. It's just too important a stat in the current game.

 

[Worrgrendel]

Sigh

No, not all elves do not need to be able to do that. But the races have niches, things they're supposed to be good at. So the situation I want to avoid is where a player chooses a race for its niche (say an elf for dexterity in order to make Legolas) and then another player chooses another race such as dwarf and makes a character which is just as good at the elf's supposed niche. Or one person want's to be 'big and strong half-orc' but turns out the party's halfling is just as strong. I want the players be able to choose the 'strong race' and be the strongest (if they want), choose 'agile race' and be most dexterous etc.

Barbarian ability boosts is fine, it is a capstone ability when the character is basically some sort of a primal demigod. Granted it is a bit weird because IIRC no other class has anything similar.

I get what you are saying but it is all a wash in the end anyway because stats all have a hard cap at 20. That Elf is only going to enjoy being more dextrous than the Dwarf until the Elf caps DEX and will enjoy that +2 stat for approximately 4 levels, maybe less depending on classes/muliclassing/a feat instead of an ASI, and then the Dwarf has a 20 Dex too. I am also assuming point buy here because rolled stats just throw everything out the window.

So to what you are saying about wanting the "strong race" to be the strongest or the "agile race" to be the most agile do that with something other than stats! For a STR Race have bonuses to carrying capacity or advantages on STR checks or once per day/short rest they can add +10 to a STR based check or some other non-stat related mechanic that represents that strength? Let's get creative and have something race related that is meaningful from level 1 - 20!

 

[DND_Reborn]

Let's get creative and have something race related that is meaningful from level 1 - 20!

This is why I think things like Powerful Build actually make a difference. There is a big difference (at least is some ways) between a STR 20 goliath and a STR 20 dragonborn.

For example, elves get "proficiency" in Perception? Seriously? Give them expertise or advantage or something even more meaningful.

The hard part would be coming up with enough unique stuff that doesn't step on other toes.

 

[Worrgrendel]

That sounds entertaining, but IME no one one dumps DeX for any character unless they are intentionally handicapping their competence. It's just too important a stat in the current game.

I was using it as a EXTREME example only that likely wouldn't ever see the light of day but it's there, none the less. You can replace DEX with any other "primary stat" for a given Race. This is more an issue of DEX being too important in the system design space.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I get what you are saying but it is all a wash in the end anyway because stats all have a hard cap at 20. That Elf is only going to enjoy being more dextrous than the Dwarf until the Elf caps DEX and will enjoy that +2 stat for approximately 4 levels, maybe less depending on classes/muliclassing/a feat instead of an ASI, and then the Dwarf has a 20 Dex too. I am also assuming point buy here because rolled stats just throw everything out the window.

The best the Dwarf can start with is 15. It takes three ASIs to reach 20. It is quite likely that the campaign is over by then or even if it isn't the elf has spent quite along time being more dexterous.

So to what you are saying about wanting the "strong race" to be the strongest or the "agile race" to be the most agile do that with something other than stats! For a STR Race have bonuses to carrying capacity or advantages on STR checks or once per day/short rest they can add +10 to a STR based check or some other non-stat related mechanic that represents that strength? Let's get creative and have something race related that is meaningful from level 1 - 20!

Sorry, but once the ability called strength is not a measure of how strong the character is, then we are at disassociated mechanics territory and I won't like it.