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What to run when you are done with D&D?

GreyLord

Legend
Well, one can do RPGs (Star Frontiers, WH40K RPG, Warhammer Fantasy, Cyberpunk, Star Wars, etc)...but another thing we do is...

Boardgaming. Boardgames can get quite in depth and some of them even have ongoing campaigns (Legacy products like Pandemic Legacy or more RPG types like Gloomhaven).
 

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EDIT because it seems to be getting lost: I am talking about wanting to do the whole dungeon fantasy thing, but not with any version of D&D.

More specifically, what do you run when you are done with D&D specifically, but still want something "D&D like" -- dungeons, monsters, traps, treasure, etc...?
I'd recommend looking at D6 Fantasy, GURPS/Dungeon Fanatasy, RuneQuest/BRP/Legend, Tunnels & Trolls, or The Fantasy Trip.

D6 Fantasy is a d6 dice pool, roll & total, compare to TN or opposed roll. Fast and easy character generation. Magic is a little bit construction-set mode. Note that the older Hercules & Xena game is the precursor to d6 Fantasy.

SJG's GURPS and Dungeon Fantasy both can do dungeon crawls. DF is the same core mechanics as GURPS, but I don't know the specifics. I've many friends who have used GURPS for the DF genre. It's 3d6 vs Skill+mods
SJG's The Fantasy Trip is a facelift of GURPS' older, simpler brother. Still plenty good, It's nd6 vs attribute, with n being difficulty typically ranging from 1 to 5, and most combat rolls being 3d.


Tunnels and Trolls has been around since 1975... and the core mechancis are still the same two... Saving Rolls (2d6 doubles open end, plus attribute, vs a TN by difficulty level (TN=(DN×5)+15 ), and the combat roll (weapon's dice, weapons adds, character's adds - in each fight - which may be side vs side, or cluster vs cluster, as the group lets happen, all on one side total, and the other side does likewise, loser takes the difference.

RuneQuest 6e is a flavored setting using a descendent of the 1st ed mechanics, having drifted a bit. It's still recognizably RuneQuest.
BRP (Chaosium's Basic Role Play) is a descendent of RQ 1E as well... but without the Glorathan setting, and being a general RPG.
Legend is (functionally) also RuneQuest - it's Mongoose's RuneQuest II (the 5th edition of RQ), stripped of the Glorantha setting IP. It's the low budget version... There are differences across the line in mechanics., but they're all percetiles, roll under.

While I've not run it, Genisys is a general purpose RPG which can easily do dungeon fantasy. It uses the same mechanics as FFG's Star Wars trilogy (Edge of the Empire, Age of Rebellion, FOrce & Destiny), which I've run extensively (and am about to do so again). It also has a solid fatnasy setting book.... And yes, FFG Star Wars can support dungeon crawling just fine...
 



Aldarc

Legend
My usual list of alternatives for dungeon-delving fantasy adventure (not including OSR D&D retroclones or PbtA/FitD):

* Index Card RPG: it's a nifty d20 hack of D&D that went level-less and built around item-based character progression.

* Fantasy Age: an easy to learn 3d6 class and level-based game with a neat stunt point system involving rolling doubles. I would wait for the new revised Core Rulebook coming out this year. You can watch the basic system in action on Youtube either with the Dragon Age episodes of Wil Wheaton's Tabletop or his '80s inspired science fantasy Titansgrave campaign.

* Numenera / Cypher System: Numenera is basically D&D dungeon-delving with a far future science fantasy coat of paint. You can easily use the more generic Cypher System and its supplements for more traditional D&D-esque fantasy adventure.

* Shadow of the Demon Lord / Weird Wizard: SotDL is dark fantasy, but the upcoming Shadow of the Weird Wizard entails Rob Schwalb putting his personalized spin on Gygaxian Greyhawk fantasy. It's a great, easy to learn system that offers a glimpse of an alternative 5e D&D.
 
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Reynard

Legend
Pathfinder for Savage Worlds.
I ran a test of this with my group the other night using Hollow's Last Hope and the pregen archetypes. I am a big Savage Worlds fan and even write for the game on occasion and we came away not very impressed with the "D&D-like" implementation. The players thought the characters were poorly designed and I found Savage Worlds combat is way too swingy and costly to implement at the frequency and scale a conversion of a Pathfinder module requires. I am looking forward to a proper Fantasy Companion, though.
 

I ran a test of this with my group the other night using Hollow's Last Hope and the pregen archetypes. I am a big Savage Worlds fan and even write for the game on occasion and we came away not very impressed with the "D&D-like" implementation. The players thought the characters were poorly designed and I found Savage Worlds combat is way too swingy and costly to implement at the frequency and scale a conversion of a Pathfinder module requires. I am looking forward to a proper Fantasy Companion, though.
That's interesting, as I've heard a lot of praise for PF SW. Is it the pregens that are poorly designed, or is it the core book, that has this flaw? What makes it poorly designed? Aan lastly, why do you think it will be better with the companion, but not PF SW?
 

Reynard

Legend
That's interesting, as I've heard a lot of praise for PF SW. Is it the pregens that are poorly designed, or is it the core book, that has this flaw? What makes it poorly designed? Aan lastly, why do you think it will be better with the companion, but not PF SW?
Specifically the players were unhappy with the pregens but since we only played the once it is impossible to tell whether it is the result of something more that how the pregens were built.

PFSW is trying to do a specific flavor of fantasy, while the companions have always been more open toolkits. I suspect the SWADE version will continue that design ethos.
 

Ixal

Adventurer
You can try The Dark Eye which is basically the European version of D&D (Not a simple knockoff, it exists since the 80s) and features the same high fantasy gameplay, maybe a bit more down to earth and less if a kitchen sink setting and instead a Europe light world.
 



Reynard

Legend
I'm actually about to run DCC RPG after my one D&D campaign finishes up this weekend. It's weird, wild, and while close mechanically to D&D, has a flavor all its own.
Tell me about MCC -- Mutant Crawl Classics -- since much of my dungeon crawling is weird science fantasy post apocalyptica anyway, if you can.
 

Voadam

Legend
I had a great time playing WFRP 1e in a long-term dungeon-focused campaign. 2e has a big Dwarven retake the lost kingdom dungeon in Karak Asgal that looks like a fantastic dungeon setup.

I really like the elegant xp system I remember of d100 games like Call of Cthulhu, Runequest, and Elric! where at the end of the session you make a check against all the percentile skills you used that session, if you fail they go up a certain amount. This means you advance based on play but advancement slows as you go. Pulp Cthulhu could probably do an Indiana Jones archaelogical site delving game with Mythos stuff and Elric!/Stormbringer would do a lot of weird dark fantasy Not-D&D.

Shadow of the Demon Lord looks like it is designed to do quick advancing Dark Fantasy contained stories that are not exactly D&D with adventures like a Dungeon Magazine adventure path where it is zero to hero D&D and things keep escalating as an apocalyptic fantasy story (specifically thinking Age of Worms and the Demons one).
 

Voadam

Legend
If you also include very D&D like RPGs but not official D&D I would consider:

Hackmaster 4e. AD&D 2e with 20 bonus hp so fights can last longer with serious hacking even at 1st level. I find the monsters and modules fantastic with some judicious scraping of the specific humor I do not care for. I would have to homebrew it for PC rules as I do not have the PH, just modules and all the monster books and the DMG, but since I have 2e stuff that would be easy. B1 In Search of the Unknown is a really great dungeon once you take out the humor aspects you don't care for.

Dungeon Crawl Classics. Very cool weird fantasy dungeon modules. Wacky roll every time you cast a spell magic for horrific to amazing results, interesting patrons, lots of classic Chaos influence. Fairly Swords and Sorcery weird fantasy D&D in a way normal D&D is not.

13th Age and Fantasy Craft are excellent high octane high fantasy d20 based hero fantasy RPGs. 13th Age is more 4e influenced while Fantasy Craft is more action point boosted 3e D&D variant (my group has lifted the base Spycraft action point system for use in various d20 modern and D&D games to great effect). 13th Age has the 360 page living megadungeon Eyes of the Stone Thief.
 

Jer

Hero
Except I explicitly want those things I mentioned.

To expound since that was a bit terse: I want to run a dungeon fantasy game specifically. Not just a general fantasy campaign. But I am frustrated with 5e specifically and D&D broadly. That why my ask in the OP was for "D&D like" which may have thrown people.

What about D&D has you frustrated currently? And what do your players want in a game? Both of those would color my responses a bit.

It sounds like your players want crunchy bits. Are you looking for more tactical combat? Faster fights? More in the investigation/exploration end? Do your players want to be big heroes and you'd rather be running something more grounded? Or vice-versa?

I will always recommend 13th Age for a dungeon crawling game, but for my table it fits because we all want to do heroic dungeon crawling and so it fits our play style well. But without knowing what's got you frustrated with D&D dungeon crawling it's hard to make recommendations.
 

Reynard

Legend
But without knowing what's got you frustrated with D&D dungeon crawling it's hard to make recommendations.
I am broadly frustrated with 5E in general, but what I found when doing a session of OD&D was players unhappy with very stripped down characters. I want a not-D&D because I want to find an alternative that still silupports the dungeon fantasy playstyle with the associated expectations and baggage of some D&D variant.
 

Cadence

Legend
Supporter
I am broadly frustrated with 5E in general, but what I found when doing a session of OD&D was players unhappy with very stripped down characters. I want a not-D&D because I want to find an alternative that still silupports the dungeon fantasy playstyle with the associated expectations and baggage of some D&D variant.
I was thinking 13th Age before (someone else suggested it above), but it felt too close to D&D to me. Where do 3.5/PF fall down in what you are looking for?
 




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