What TTRPGs have the best tactical combat rules?

[DrunkonDuty]

HERO System, hands down. Differing speeds, aborting phases and holding actions, defensive and offensive manoeuvres that any character can use, pushing an ability for more effect, optional martial arts rules combat skill levels. I went on about it here so I won't go on about it.

L5R 3e has some interesting choices. Combat stances (defence, offense, or middle-ground) and shifting initiative order (IIRC they call it Tides of Battle) can give a sense of the flow of the fight moving back and forth between combatants that I quite like.

DnD 3.X (and PF 1e) With the right feat selection you could build an interesting combatant. But man, it took some levels to get there. Whenever I played a fighter I always took took the feats: power attack and expertise (weapon expertise? can't remember the name but you could trade attack bonus for AC.) It was the best way to build HERO style skill levels into the game. And for ultimate tactical fun you could always try to grapple someone.

All the other game systems I can think of basically have "roll to hit, roll to damage' and not much more to them. GURPS is what? roll to hit, roll defence, roll damage? (sorry to any GURPS fans, it's been literally decades since I looked at the rules.)

 

[Argyle King]

HERO System, hands down. Differing speeds, aborting phases and holding actions, defensive and offensive manoeuvres that any character can use, pushing an ability for more effect, optional martial arts rules combat skill levels. I went on about it here so I won't go on about it.

L5R 3e has some interesting choices. Combat stances (defence, offense, or middle-ground) and shifting initiative order (IIRC they call it Tides of Battle) can give a sense of the flow of the fight moving back and forth between combatants that I quite like.

DnD 3.X (and PF 1e) With the right feat selection you could build an interesting combatant. But man, it took some levels to get there. Whenever I played a fighter I always took took the feats: power attack and expertise (weapon expertise? can't remember the name but you could trade attack bonus for AC.) It was the best way to build HERO style skill levels into the game. And for ultimate tactical fun you could always try to grapple someone.

All the other game systems I can think of basically have "roll to hit, roll to damage' and not much more to them. GURPS is what? roll to hit, roll defence, roll damage? (sorry to any GURPS fans, it's been literally decades since I looked at the rules.)

Depends on how many of the options from GURPS you turn on.

Out of the box, GURPS has rules for facing, so that already gives importance to movement and positioning.

With more options turned on (GURPS is modular,) you can feint, use "deceptive attacks," use a shield wall to protect your allies, and other things.

Also, hitpoints represent injury and damage. You don't fight the same at near-death as you do at full HP.

All of that is before using any of the additional options that may mean different weapons actually behave differently.

 

[payn]

My first thought is D&D 3.x, but I know a lot of people would argue 4e.

3E to me is more of a strategic game. Come to fight prepared with what you need and hold it where you want. Or, be on your heels and have to go out swinging. There are a few tactical elements like the AOO, flanking, and such, but I wouldnt put it in the best list. YMMV. .

 

[aramis erak]

Pretty much what is on the tin. What games that are meant to be RPGs (with all that implies) have the best rules for tactical combat?

Obviously, this is going to be somewhat subjective, but I want to be clear that I am referring specifically to tactical rules, where positioning and choices matter. It doesn't have to be grids and minis, but it still has to be tactical (independent of whether there are narrative elements at play).

So in your opinion, what TTRPG has the best tactical combat rules?

Classic Car Wars. (Note that the 1st major supplement, Truck Stop, has a subtitle on the rulebook "A Car Wars Role-Playing Supplement")...
So good that most players didn't bother with RP mode.
A rare few of us played it as an RPG. I'm considering running it again using a VTT. (But SJG keeps issuing takedowns.)

 

[Peter BOSCO'S]

"Best" is subjective as "most accurate" is competing with "fun" and "comprehensible" and "quick playing". I find your question unanswerable until I know more about what you meant.

 

[Deset Gled]

3E to me is more of a strategic game. Come to fight prepared with what you need and hold it where you want. Or, be on your heels and have to go out swinging. There are a few tactical elements like the AOO, flanking, and such, but I wouldnt put it in the best list. YMMV. .

I can see that argument. A lot of the rock-paper-scissors style play and character optimization was probably more what Six Sigma would classify as strategic rather than tactical.

But Power Attack was highly tactical. Optimization for average damage based on opponent AC combined with declining iterative attacks, and searching for different attack bonuses to convert to damage, etc. Also, the game had lots of tactical resource management (although that declined as the system aged). And lots of spells could be tactical. You could do a lot of battlefield control.

 

[Reynard]

"Best" is subjective as "most accurate" is competing with "fun" and "comprehensible" and "quick playing". I find your question unanswerable until I know more about what you meant.

I thought I was pretty clear in the OP. Maybe read that instead of just the title?

 

[hawkeyefan]

It’s only available in playtest currently, but Hollows by Rowan, Rook, and Decard seems to be a likely contender. It was designged specifically to be about tactical combat involving hunters with sentient weapons and big ol’ monsters. I’ve not yet played it, but I’ve checked out the playtest and it looks pretty cool.

Hollows Playtest

 

[dbm]

If the question would be “what RPG has the most tactical rules” then without a doubt it would be GURPS. It aims to simulate reality (with varying degree of success) and the real world is full of tactics. There are trade offs between movement and combat effectiveness, between attack and defense. Positioning is super-important and there are even choices like whether you hold your pole-arm in long-handled way for reach or staff-style for parry bonus instead. But that level of granularity is punishing and procedurally heavy if you use it all.

Savage Worlds has a great balance in my opinion. Enough tactical choices and enough differentiation, with meaningful effects, to make tactical combat interesting and fun. The rules for extras make large fights easy to handle, too. So for me, Savage Worlds has the best tactical combat.

 

[SableWyvern]

D&D in every edition is for me the gold standard here. The problems for D&D have almost always been what it does when it isn't doing rules for small scale tactical skirmish wargame.

Early editions of D&D are great for real-world tactics (or tactical infinity), especially when large parties are engaging large groups of enemies, where formation and manoeuvre are the crux.

However, when someone says "tactical combat" when referring to RPGs, they pretty much always mean gamey tactics, where it's about precise positioning, coordinating special powers, performing combos, maximising bonuses etc ... The OP makes it pretty clear this is the meaning they're using. PF2 seems to regularly be held up as one of the best implementations of this, although I know almost nothing about it myself. As much as I can't stand the game overall, D&D 4e also did this very well.