What TTRPGs have the best tactical combat rules?

[Reynard]

You kind of need to define best as it is really subjective.

I don't need to. You need to as you present what you think is the best.

If we know more about what you want, specifically, we can make better suggestions.

Oh. I see. You think I am asking for advice. That's not the case. I am asking for your opinion, and potentially a discussion about the subject broadly.

All that being said - 5E hits the sweet spot for me by being a balanced game that supports great fantasy storytelling with rules that are as detailed as they need to be. It isn't perfect, but I have far fewer house rules in 5E than in any other edition.

That's great but interestingly did not say anything about tactical play.

 

[jgsugden]

I don't need to. You need to as you present what you think is the best.

You're mistaken. You're making a request, and we're deciding whether to offer up something in request. Being rude makes that decision easier.

Oh. I see. You think I am asking for advice. That's not the case. I am asking for your opinion, and potentially a discussion about the subject broadly.

5E.

That's great but interestingly did not say anything about tactical play.

Rules as detailed as they need to be addresses your concern. They're best because they're neither overly burdensome nor too vague. If that isn't the type of opinion you want, then be clearer on what you want.

 

[Reynard]

They're best because they're neither overly burdensome nor too vague.

That's more what I am hoping to tease out. I am curious what people view as "best" when it comes to tactical play.

I presume by your response that you feel 5E offers enough options for meaningful choices during tactical portions of play. 5E has significantly fewer options than, say, 3.x, so I am curious if you prefer more streamlined play where you don't have to worry so much about a bunch of (for example) maneuvers potentially being used.

The reason I ask is because I don't think 5E offers much tactical depth, but I also think that is a feature of its design for making is accessible and popular. That said though, I am hard pressed to put it high in a list of TTRPGs with the "best" tactical combat rules.

 

[aramis erak]

I wasn't kidding about Classic Car Wars...
it does assume people to be 150 lbs and able to run 20mph... but aside from that. Man to man, tactics matter, because if you can be hit, you're TOAST. The car combat is the heard of the design, and is probably one of the more realistic maneuvering systems out there. Man to Man combat can happen, but tends to be 3 hits... I hit, I hit again, you hit the dirt/pavement/floor. But the car combat is super tactical, and, while a touch slow, really quite a lot of fun.


But for more discussability, I'll mention my next favorite...

Prime Directive 1E - it pretty much seems to assume minis use, but I've not used minis with it, and only rarely needed drawing. The initiative system is complex, but dual axis result - both when you go in the round, and how much you get to do in the round.
Most of the combat is going to be with phasers, and it's got a decent reason for not using higher settings all the time: power limits. Yeah, this does get fiddly.
Further, the primary role of the party is as a special ops team, so tactical situations are extremely common. The list of tactical mods aren't too long, but are robust. And, given that you can't count on getting an action next turn, and that a lot of times, you're act but with limited actions...
The initiative also causes the random popup mode seen most often in DS-9, but not uncommon in ST:TNG...
The combination is pretty much a lot of fun, and one has to account for unreliable action capability.

I'll give honorable mentions to GURPS and Hero System.

 

[bedir than]

The newest edition of Twilight 2000 is my favorite for gun-heavy tactical combat. Nothing else comes close. Incredibly fast resolution, manages to feel very realistic without bogging you down in mechanics, instead focusing on how important movement, cover, and suppressing fire are. And the only RPG I've ever played or read with suppression rules that aren't terrible. In fact, they're amazing! And the fact that combat move so fast is related—losing your turn because of suppressive fire (or even just a near miss) isn't the nightmare it is in most trad games, since it'll be your turn again soon.

It's a little hard to manage T2K via VTT, though, which is the only reason I'm not running it every week (or at least trying to).

Also, the first Twilight 2000 was a very good tactical game -- it focused more on shoot, move, communicate than any other RPG from the 80s that I remember.

 

[Wofano Wotanto]

Also, the first Twilight 2000 was a very good tactical game -- it focused more on shoot, move, communicate than any other RPG from the 80s that I remember.

Both editions are solid in that regard. They've enough simulation to feel more real than many RPG combat engines do without letting excess crunch slow down gameplay.

But the car combat is super tactical, and, while a touch slow, really quite a lot of fun.

One of my few concerns about Car Wars as either a combat game or a rules-light RPG in the vein of Lancer is that you can definitely lose a fight during the vehicle design stage if you either don't know what you're doing or your opponent has advance knowledge of what you're driving. It's not hard to trump most builds when you know they're what you'll face.

Which isn't wholly a bad thing, because running intel-gathering and counterespionage ops in roleplay mode just adds to the variety of stuff you can do. And that's pretty deep already, especially with the AADA Road Guides for inspiration.

 

[Fenris-77]

The combat rules in Stara Szkola are marvelous. SS the OSR treatment of a crunchier game called Codex Martialis. Both were specifically designed to have interesting and somewhat historically informed combat rules. I can only speak for Stara Szkola though and I don't own CM yet.

 

[HaroldTheHobbit]

Classic Car Wars. (Note that the 1st major supplement, Truck Stop, has a subtitle on the rulebook "A Car Wars Role-Playing Supplement")...
So good that most players didn't bother with RP mode.
A rare few of us played it as an RPG. I'm considering running it again using a VTT. (But SJG keeps issuing takedowns.)

I spent uncountable hours on Classic Car Wars in my teens, even though we didn't do any serious roleplaying with it. I even bought the GURPS Auto-dueling book just for the fluff. So of course it's my favorite tactical system, even if we played it with corps or auto-dueling teams as characters. VTT implementation - or a multiplayer crpg faithful to the rules - would be amazing, my wallet would be wide open.

 

[Wofano Wotanto]

So of course it's my favorite tactical system, even if we played it with corps or auto-dueling teams as characters.

That's pretty much how we RP'd Car Wars as well. Running a single PC wasn't wholly satisfactory given the mortality rate even with Gold Cross brain-taping or magic from those magazine articles. Easier to get attached to a team, gang or small business or even a share a small settlement's occupants between multiple players. We even did a supers game using Autoduel Champions for a while, inspired by the ADQ fiction with a mercenary troubleshooter group that secretly included some low-key supers - was the story called Alkahest, maybe?

Might have been the first real troupe-style roleplay I did, now that I think about it. Ars Magic was years later for me.

 

[Reynard]

I don't think car Wars qualifies as a RPG any more than, say, Battletech does.

I am reading Fallout 2d20 now in preparation to run it and it is a little lighter on tactics than I would have liked. That's actually okay for the group I am going to run for who are less interested in such things, but I was kind of hoping for a bit more crunch in the combat, along the lines of Conan2d20.