What was so magical about 1E/OD&D art?

[Scribble]

I think someone else touched on this earlier, but I wanted to say looking over the wizards art page... While I DO like a lot of 3e artwork, what bugs me is the lack of backgrounds...

The pictures tend to be closeups of characters or things, with little to no backgrounds...

While the pictures look good, to me a good background really brings a character to life.


I kind of wonder if this was done as sort of part of the whole less fluff more crunch in 3rd edition idea...

Like they don't want to tell you that your fantasy world has to be like "x" they also don't want to show you that either?

Seems like in 3e artwork is used in a more illustrative way, as opposed to in yesterditions, when it seemed more like it was being used to set a mood?

But then again maybe it only feels this way to me because of the captions people mention? So as opposed to my looking at the picture and using my imagination to tell me what is happening, there's a nice little caption that says here's what's happening! So the story (short as it might be) is told FOR me, rather then by me...

Shrug. I dunno, I'ma just ramblin...

 

[WayneLigon]

The pictures tend to be closeups of characters or things, with little to no backgrounds...

While the pictures look good, to me a good background really brings a character to life.

I kind of wonder if this was done as sort of part of the whole less fluff more crunch in 3rd edition idea...

The design and layout people on the board might be able to shed some light on this. I would think it's because most of the illustrations are placed in the middle of the text and text that wraps tightly around the picture tends to look more interesting. Anything but a simple background probably makes the page look too 'busy'. The large full page plates tend to have better and more detailed backgrounds.

 

[Scribble]

The design and layout people on the board might be able to shed some light on this. I would think it's because most of the illustrations are placed in the middle of the text and text that wraps tightly around the picture tends to look more interesting. Anything but a simple background probably makes the page look too 'busy'. The large full page plates tend to have better and more detailed backgrounds.

I can understand that being the reason, and I'm not saying ALL of the 3e artwork has no background work, I guess maybe because there's a lot more illustrative art like this in 3e then there was in previous editions, a majority of it gets kind of boring to me... But that's just personal opinion.

I don't see quite as many full page plates in 3e it seems... But maybe I'm just being forgetful?

One of my favorite paintings was in the 2e players.. the opening shot of the adventurers displaying their trophy dragon...

It wasn't really illustrating anything particular in the area it was in... The next page didn't really describe dragon hunting or anything... But (for me at least) it really set the mood...

Here was a world similar to mine but magical. Where people show off trophy dragons instead of fish...

And because the background was so detailed, it made me feel that these characters were but a part of a larger whole... so there was room for more adventuring groups with trophy dragons... room for me.

But I'm biased I guess because elmore is one of my favorites.

 

[Prince of Happiness]

One of my favorite paintings was in the 2e players.. the opening shot of the adventurers displaying their trophy dragon...

It wasn't really illustrating anything particular in the area it was in... The next page didn't really describe dragon hunting or anything... But (for me at least) it really set the mood...

Here was a world similar to mine but magical. Where people show off trophy dragons instead of fish...

And because the background was so detailed, it made me feel that these characters were but a part of a larger whole... so there was room for more adventuring groups with trophy dragons... room for me.

But I'm biased I guess because elmore is one of my favorites.

What I also liked was that it wasn't a big dragon at all, but you could tell that they fight like hell to bag it. Kinda like what you do at low levels, it was cool.

 

[Raven Crowking]

It is my impression that you say that the pictures in the PH don't convey a sense of the people in the pictures being in a seriously threatening situation, thereby implying that no harm can befall pcs.

It's a bit more than that. In expression, posture, and placement, the PCs are in a dominant position in the 3.0 PHB pictures as well. There is not only a sense that they are not seriously threatened; there is a sense in each of the illustrations that they are well equipped and able to handle anything they are depicted as encountering. There is no indication whatsoever that the situation is ever out of control, nor is there any indication that the PCs lack information.

However, in the DMG, there is a large number of illustrations depicting the PCs or other adventurers in situations that are out of control, or in which they lack important information about their surroundings which the viewer is privy to.

The fact that they are armed, IMHO, is a message to the viewer that they are planning to, about to, or even in some cases in the middle of engaging in a situation in which arms are required. However, in fantasy novels, television, film, video games, and role-playing games, there is no direct relationship between the use of arms and necessarily being seriously threatened. In all of these media arms are used to intimidate, control situations, and cut through mooks.

A 20th level fighter in any edition might use a sword to eliminate a dire (giant) rat. Han Solo might use a blaster to intimidate some storm troopers. Indiana Jones might use his whip to disarm a betraying henchman. These things do not mean that they are seriously theatened. Uther Pendragon may lay with Ygraine wearing full plate mail (?!?). Lancelot may joust with lesser knights. A cop might wear riot gear when breaking up a peaceful rally. These things do not mean that they are seriously threatened.

If Joe Commoner is vexed by goblins, an adventuring party might slay the goblins with big axes and flashy spells -- this doesn't mean it was challenging.

Again, either you are setting the bar for "seriously threatened" very much lower than I am, or you are far cleverer in terms of your analysis.

 

[Raven Crowking]

While the pictures look good, to me a good background really brings a character to life.

IMHO, backround in illustration is used primarily to supply context of the central figure(s) (unless, of course, the picture is itself a landscape, and even these seem most often to focus on one or more portions of the visible scene). Therefore, when producing artwork the importance of background is directly related to the importance of context.

The pictures in the DMG seem to have more fleshed out backgrounds in some cases; I imagine that this is related to the importance of context to action in adventure/world design.

I think your other observations may also be spot on.

RC

 

[Gentlegamer]

You call those huge ears? Whatever.

THESE are huge ears.... Dragon Magazine, 1981

Since those are goblinoids (probably bugbears), the huge ears are appropriate.

 

[Gentlegamer]

Why should it look like Gimli? I can't see how it is a bad thing that it doesn't. That dwarf looks like it would be far more capable in combat than many other renditions I've seen.

That dwarf looks more like some kind of clay golem than an actual demihuman. Even the non-traditional dwarves of Dark Sun had better proportioned bodies in illustrations.

 

[Geron Raveneye]

Heh, funny...people are still following this troll deeper into the dungeon? And nobody has brought any torches or acid, either. Must be the spirit of the season or something.

 

[I'm A Banana]

The bottom line is that 1ed art is not "fine art". It was decent art that suited the game it accompanied. It was no more accomplished than that of any other edition. Frankly there hasn't been any convincing argument made to disprove that any of this "magic" of 1ed art is anything more than personal opinion.

Word.

I do enjoy those black-and-white images above, but they're ornate woodblocks. They'd be useful for images that the characters may see, but they don't do a lot for illustrative purposes. I see a lot more illustrative artwork in 3e -- showing you how things would kind of actually look in the game world -- and I think this is a good thing. I'd still probably like to see the occasional woodblock-style item, but when the pagecount is limited and you're introducing new concepts, I can't fault them for going with a more illustrative style.

It's a bit more than that. In expression, posture, and placement, the PCs are in a dominant position in the 3.0 PHB pictures as well. There is not only a sense that they are not seriously threatened; there is a sense in each of the illustrations that they are well equipped and able to handle anything they are depicted as encountering. There is no indication whatsoever that the situation is ever out of control, nor is there any indication that the PCs lack information.

The only reason a hero suffers a setback is to show their heroism in overcoming it. If they don't overcome it, if the situation is out of control and they can't dominate the situation, they aren't heroes, they're meatbags. In a game of heroic fantasy, the archetypes and expectations are that you will be the heroes. The heroes are shown being heroic in various ways to encourage the players to be heroic, too. Jumping into the mouth of a dragon might not always be instantly deadly becaue this is a game of heroism, not of character-slaughter. Heroes will encounter trouble, and they may die, but the trouble is there to be overcome, and the death is there to make room for the next hero. The villains may gain victories, but the good guys win.

If it works for Lord of the Rings, for Paradise Lost, for 90% of narrative writing, why shouldn't it work for D&D? I mean, it's not a game of tragedy or comedy or postmodernism...the message of the game is "Be a hero, wield the magic, slay the villain, save the day." It's a good message for the core books to have, and the artwork does tell that same message.

That Otus cover shows the same message. Those black-and-white woodblocks, while beautiful, don't really communicate very clearly (the first one seems to be saying "this game has ornate cities and Moses and Lizardfolk," the second one seems to be saying "dancing by the lake can bring a dragon with a halo up from the deapths"). Even the picture of Vaan says "this character is easygoing and young," and the picture of the Malebranche says "this scary monster will effin' kill you."

This pic of Devis and Jozan from Cityscape?

It says "tragedy happens, and your cleric friend will be there to console you."

Since those are goblinoids (probably bugbears), the huge ears are appropriate.

How can you tell? It looks kind of like a girl in a bad '80's anthropomorphic animal cartoon.