What would you have done?

[gizmo33]

I think you assume that people naturally prefer the company of like minded people. I disagree. For example, I think those with Evil alignments would have plenty of reasons to surround themselves with other people who are not Evil. I think Neutral people would have plenty of reasons to want to live under a Good ruler or work with Evil people toward certain ends. And so on.

I can't think of any reason for any of the things you'd say. If I were neutral and I had to live under a good ruler, I suppose I could make do. But I wouldn't WANT to do it. It would just be a matter of time before the good ruler took offense to something that I did. And if he never did, then what basis would we have for having different alignments to begin with? And if I'm working with evil people, don't they know that I'm neutral? Let's say they don't and it's time to attend the human sacrifice. If I'm doing these sorts of things over and over again to "fit in" to evil society, won't that make me evil? And if I'm not evil, won't they put me on the list of likely human sacrifices?

In fact, I'm somewhat stumped as to how to respond. My mind boggles at the number of "poor man's alignment detection" that people attempt in the real world. Political parties and religions are two huge forces that determine how people identify and organize themeselves and they're nowhere near as measurable or definitive as alignment. I just don't think the tiny percentage of people able and willing to hide their alignment from others would have a significant effect on the social structures. AFAIK doing evil things where I live is a necessary and sufficient condition for going to jail. The only gray areas exist because people can't figure out whether or not something is really evil - moral definitions change over time, etc. This is not the case in the alignment system.

Among zillion of examples are when a government official places his hand on the bible and swears to uphold whatever it is that socieity wants him to uphold. This is a desperate attempt by people to accomplish what stepping through an anti-magic field and being subject to a detect alignment spell would do *much* more reliably. In what universe do people not want like-minded people governing them? I work in a sensitive government position right now, and I've got to get a security clearance by filling out some paper work so that the government could do a background check on me. I have little doubt that if the government were capable of detecting my alignment they would do so without hesitation.

 

[John Morrow]

Of course, we're talking about Zhents not elf maidens, and I would just say, "you wouldn't rape the elf maiden." Then we would go about playing the GAME!

We're talking about doing something that the GM considers personally abhorrent. I don't get the impression that you think slitting the Zhent's throat was abhorrent but do consider raping an elf maiden abhorrent. What I'm trying to see is how you'd react if you were faced with your players doing something in a game that you were GMing that was personally abhorrent to you and defended it, not only in the game but on real-world grounds. That is analogous to what happened here.

That said:

Do you think that, "You wouldn't slit the Zhent's throat," would have be a correct response to the situation?

What would you do if the player objected to being told that their character couldn't rape the elf maiden and insisted that you should let them?

Should my DM try to tell me he's disgusted at ME because of a game, I'd probably respond with, "@#%* you!"

You wouldn't be disgusted with your players if they insisted that they should be able to rape the elf maiden, objected to your interference in the way their characters are being played, and defended their characters' actions on the grounds that they'd do exactly the same thing in the real world if they could get away with it?

That's what I want to know. If you wouldn't be disgusted or say something, then your principle that a GM should never be disgusted at their players because of what they do in a game and should never tell them they are disgusted stands. If you would be disgusted or say something, then it's not a matter of general principle that being disgusted or saying something is always wrong, but simply a matter of degree of disgust.