D&D (2024) What would your ideal rest mechanic look like?

[Yaarel]

I regularly want to limit long rests even though the current story arc is set in the party's home city where they go to bed at night to sleep snug in their beds. Safe sanctuary limits only seem to help for exploration and dungeon crawls.

Other planets have different schedules, but in reallife Earth, the week moreorless corresponds to the moon, where there are four weeks, comprising 28 days, until the next (fully dark) new moon. So narratively, meaningful recovery can be one moon away.

One option is, a two-week long rest only grants half the number of hit dice − but without granting the maximum hit point restoration. Then the character must spend hit dice as the only way to regain hit points. Thus if an injured character has already spent all the hit dice and is at zero hit points, it will take about one month on average to return to maximum hit points, assuming average hit dice roles. Plus the character needs an additional month to then regain both the maximum hit points and the extra maximum hit dice to spend later. This four-to-eight week recovery period approximates the amount of time for typical injuries.

This per-week long rest but without the automatic full hit points, makes sense if the character reduces to zero hit points, fails at least one death save, and incurs a moderate or serious injury.

But if a character stays intact by avoiding zero hit points, then the 8-hour long rest with full hit points refresh, makes sense when mainly to refresh from fatigue.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I though I had detailed that - I want power refresh not to be under the control of the player, even roughly such as by passage of time.

To go into more detail, I want the pacing of power refreshes to be a tool for the DM, without assuming that every DM will force the issue every adventure, such as putting a time limit in. That could be because it's regular and the DM can plan around it (like what I quoted from 13th Age), because it irrelevant (like pre-essentials 4e where all of the characters had the same power refresh structure sans a few utility powers), or even more directly under the DM control (like only taking refreshing powers at a sanctuary or between adventures).

I don't think it possible for the rest to be at least partially in player control and still be a sensible in game thing. But the GM has a massive amount of control anyway. They decide what sort of enemies are where, what their plans are and how and when they act. Anything more would start to seem pretty arbitrary. "You can't rest, because I say so," and I wouldn't want that.

I just went back and read your altered gritty rest mechanic. It is close to fitting my requirements to, except for the issue that some classes mostly refresh their expendables on a short rest like the warlock or monk, while others really don't, so there's still a significant player-controlled gap.

BTW, since the beginning I have been breaking out power refreshes - that is only half of the rest rules in 5e with the other half being spending HD (short rest) or fully healing and recovering long-term attrition (1 level of exhaustion and half your HD). How would you feel about this adjustment to your gritty rest rules:

All short rest refresh abilities move to Proficiency times per long rest, as seems to be the current trend.

Short rests still retain importance in spending HD, but there's no power refreshes under player control via time.

I don't like it. It's not terrible, but I actually like different classes working differently. And as HD only refreshes on long rests, everyone will want one sooner or later anyway. Yes, a Monk can decide to meditate a night and regain their chi, a wizard can't do that with their spells. And I think that's a feature, not a bug.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

The problem I have with the sanctuary idea is that for me anyway that still wouldn't help much. I regularly want to limit long rests even though the current story arc is set in the party's home city where they go to bed at night to sleep snug in their beds. Safe sanctuary limits only seem to help for exploration and dungeon crawls.

But if it is also a week, then that helps, if there is any time pressure at all*. But yes, it gets less elegant in such a situation.


*Ideally one would setup such a situation so that the opposition has plans that they proceed with if the PCs do not act. But I get that setting up everything to work like that is a lot of work.

 

[Oofta]

Other planets have different schedules, but in reallife Earth, the week moreorless corresponds to the moon, where there are four weeks, comprising 28 days, until the next (fully dark) new moon. So narratively, meaningful recovery can be one moon away.

One option is, a one-week long rest only grants half the number of hit dice − but without granting the maximum hit point restoration. Then the character must spend hit dice as the only way to regain hit points. Thus if an injured character has already spent all the hit dice and is at zero hit points, it will take about one month on average to return to maximum hit points, assuming average hit dice roles. Plus the character needs an additional two weeks to then regain both the maximum hit points and the maximum hit dice to spend later. This six week recovery period approximates the amount of time for typical injuries.

This per-week long rest but that prevents the automatic full hit points, makes sense if the character reduces to zero hit points, fails at least one death save, and incurs a moderate or serious injury.

But if a character stays intact by avoiding zero hit points, then the 8-hour long rest with full hit points refresh, makes sense when mainly to refresh from fatigue.

Interesting idea, but assumes that there is a moon. Then again, it's something we don't really think about which is why the full moon is baked into things like lycanthropy.

But I'm not sure the HP recovery is really a major issue for a lot of people, it's more about resource recovery. If you regain all your healing spells at dawn, it only takes a couple of days for the cleric to get everybody back to full health if there's no other demand on their resource.

 

[Micah Sweet]

My ideal rest power recovery mechanic is one where different DMs are free to run extremely different types of games and the various classes are still in balance.

So a three week trek across a wilderness with four encounters, or a brisk morning with the same have the same total power recovery. As well as being able to have exploration with heavy utility usage and a masquerade ball with associated intrigue, stealthing, uncovering secrets, and stopping a poisoning can balance.

Which means there is no way for it to be a rest mechanic, as rests will be available at different rates as they are related to character choices as well as the passing of in-game time.

While rather gamist to some, 13th Age (a d20 that 5e is similar to in streamlining) has a solution. "Full heal ups" happen after four encounters. Sleeping has nothing to getting your powers back. It could be four days of exploring the Overworld, it could be twice during a busy day in a Living Dungeon. The DM can reduce the number if they are particularly big combats (but by default a standard combat is hard to deadly in 5e encounter design terms, may be hard but isn't actually deadly), and players can take one early by taking a campaign loss - the cultists complete another part of their ritual, the werewolves claim another farm, whatever makes sense.

Yeah, I'm one of the some that feels it to be rather gamist. Too bad, because it is an elegant mechanic.

 

[Yaarel]

Interesting idea, but assumes that there is a moon. Then again, it's something we don't really think about which is why the full moon is baked into things like lycanthropy.

It is easy to forget how unique planet Earth is.

But I'm not sure the HP recovery is really a major issue for a lot of people, it's more about resource recovery. If you regain all your healing spells at dawn, it only takes a couple of days for the cleric to get everybody back to full health if there's no other demand on their resource.

In a game where injuries are actually injuries, magic becomes more important. When there is a difference between fatigue and injury, different spells can do different things.

Relatedly, a Warlord can reasonably mitigate fatigue, by coaching the combat to inspire a character and keep the character alert. But if the character actually gets physically injured at zero hit points, the Warlord would need to resort the Medicine skill to treat the wound.

 

[Micah Sweet]

My ideal rest mechanics are entirely about making the board game work and be fun. That's all I care about. If the rules allow the players of the board game to play it and enjoy it, then I'm good. But I do not in any way, shape, or form care a whit about making those rules of the board game align to any sense of true injury narratively. Because Dungeons & Dragons combat does not in any way, shape, or form reflect any sort of reality in terms of actual swordfighting, archery, and being blasted in the face by what these "spells" are supposed to do... so I just handwave that aspect of it completely. Going from 0 HP to full HP with a good night's rest? Doesn't matter. That's purely a convenience of the board game and to make the rules easy and fun to use, so worrying about how it looks within the story is a waste of my time.

And this is simply because I refuse to believe there is any sort of realistic response to a person getting blasted in the face by essentially a flamethrower, falling unconscious, having a healer a couple seconds later heal those burns (but not in any way removing the trauma of being burned alive and the memory of that pain and agony)... and then that same person just jumps up and says "Okay! That was fun! On to the next room!" And then five minutes later in the next room that same character suffers a myriad of bites, claws, stab wounds, poisoning, and being bludgeoned about the head and neck, falls unconscious AGAIN... then has a vial of liquid emptied into their mouth to seal up those bleeding wounds (but again not in any way removing the trauma and mental anguish of pain they just suffered) and the character just once more jumps up and says "Okay! That was fun! On to the next room!" and this continues ad nauseum.

All of it is stupid. It has no basis for any attempt at realism. It is complete and utter fantasy (which makes sense, because it is a game of fantasy.) And thus I just accept it for the unrealism it is and do my best to never question it (or care in the slightest if the board game and fantasy story does or does not align.)

I would love it if people would stop using the phrase "it's fantasy" to disregard every single concern about reality breaking, no matter how big or small. It is a spectrum, and rules and players fall on different points along it, and trying to make a pass at realism matters to a lot of people.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I pointed out it was gamey, but opens up a world of difference in class design and play. My requirement is "not easily under player control" which includes generically time based because without requiring the DM to do anything special (like put time pressure in every adventure) that is effectively under rough player control.

So, just as you dismiss this as gamey, I will equally dismiss resting.

Let's explore together everything else that it might be.

For example, Adventures in Middle Earth (the 5e adaption of The One Ring) doesn't allow resting during the Journey phase generally unless you stop by a sanctuary like Elrond's.

So, where can we find a medium that meets

My version of resting, as noted above, is inspired by Adventures in Middle Earth, as was Level Up's I believe. The Sanctuary concept fixes a lot of issues for me.

 

[Oofta]

So wizards can use Arcane Recovery to get back 1/2 their level in spell slots during a short rest. What if you extend that idea to long rests and potentially other resources as well?

If multiply the number of slots a caster has times the spell level then add it all up a 10th level full caster has 41 points. During a short rest, that 10th level caster can recover 5 points back, so 5 1st level spells or a 2nd and a 3rd and so on. Depending on style of campaign you could give casters back 1/2 their level in points back, their level back, double or even just say they get all spells back.

So to match the pace of my current campaign I'd use the first option and it would take 8 days to recuperate from "empty".

Similar for healing as well, you recover HD as usual but you have to spend HD to heal. You'd still have to figure out balance for other powers, maybe just get rid of short rest recovery altogether and replace it with using things proficiency times per day. If you did that you could limit how many you get back.

Or ... just borrow from other games and use mana or spell points. Give the DM the option of how quickly mana recovers with the option of mana potions.

The hard part is difficulty and trying to keep it simple. I personally like having a mana or spell point pool that recovers slowly over time, but people could find it confusing.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Your attempts at discussion confuse me, it seems you're mostly dissing me. I am also not sure that choosing some middle point between diametrically opposed views is so much fertile ground for creative solutions, rather than a recipe for incoherent compromise that pleases no one. Though I of course would be glad to be proven wrong on that.

But in sprit of attempting to be, if not creative, at least constructive, I repeat my question: what is the problem you feel the 13th Age's encounter count based rests solves? And why you find gritty rests unsatisfying?

I think that there is no "ideal" resting mechanic that will work for everyone. In fact, I'm not sure the OP was even asking for one. I thought we were just discussing what worked for us, and to a lesser degree why what worked for others didn't work for us. Creating some kind of Platonic perfect version just seems unrealistic.