D&D 5E Whatever "lore" is, it isn't "rules."

[Lanefan]

I don't know. Of the 20 or so players I've gamed with in recent years, 0 wouldn't be aware of the change. All of them either know Krynn, Greyhawk, or both, and the majority of them know both.

Counter: in our crew (also about 20) I can think of perhaps 4 who would even notice such a change, maybe 2 of which would care about it enough to even comment. And I'd count myself among those who probably wouldn't notice at all - I don't remember which deities are supposed to go with which settings at the best of times.

Then again, retaining the purity of any setting canon is generally a very long way down the design-priority list 'round here.

Lanefan

 

[pemerton]

Suppose I put aside my 20 entirely and just go with your 6 or 7 out of 20, that's still more than 25% of people that will understand the switch. If even 1 out of 5 encounters this, that's still a significant percentage of people that it affects.

I'm not GMing you or your friends. I'm not GMIng [MENTION=205]TwoSix[/MENTION] or TwoSIx's friends.

I'm GMing my friends. Among whom the percentage of people who were adversely affected in some fashion by my GMing decision was zero. Among whom the number of players who liked it sufficiently to play WoHS was five. In a campaign where some of the longest-running NPCs were WoHS (Ursula and her friends) and the fact that they were Black Robe wizards was undoubtedly one of the memorable things abou tthem.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Shasarak]

Oh, and reading back over this thread, is there anyone that doubts where the OG (1e) Ranger came from?

So is that an example of lore being rules? The lore is Aragorn (a Ranger) can use a Palantir and the rules are that a Ranger can use a Palantir.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Campbell]

Here's the way I see things: If I tell my friends I'm thinking about running a D&D game set in Grayhawk, that's the start of a very long conversation not the end of one. Where and when are we setting it? What's the focus of the game going to be? We'll then throw out some campaign and character concepts that might adjust the lore we're going to be dealing with. Then we'll get into system discussions that will probably include games that share cultural capstones with D&D like Dungeon World, 13th Age, Adventurer Conqueror King, Lamentations of the Flame Princess, and Pathfinder - although probably not Pathfinder. Then we'll make characters, and I'll start prepping stuff - which stuff depends on the particular focus of the game and which game we ended up using.

 

[Campbell]

Maybe my assumptions are off here, but I thought most Grayhawk fans viewed From The Ashes like I view the Star Wars prequel movies. I know some Grayhawk fans locally who appreciate the Paizohawk material, but none who are fans of the Grayhawk Wars.

 

[pemerton]

Oh, and reading back over this thread, is there anyone that doubts where the OG (1e) Ranger came from?

Aragorn could only use the one item, not all non-written magic items of that type. Nor did the palantir allow ESP. What you have is an ability based on Aragorn's ability, but different and not at all tied to setting. There is no setting specific lore in that ranger ability.

<snip>

There is in fact setting specific lore and mechanics associated with the Wizards of High Sorcery.

It seems to me that [MENTION=23751]Maxperson[/MENTION] thinks that reading LotR, then building the ranger class as inspired by Aragorn, is not incorporating a setting-specific element; whereas reading DL and the DLA hardback, and then adapting the WoHS from those sources to GH, is incorporating a setting-specific element.

Personally I don't see where the distinction lies - eg ranger item rules "inspired by" rather than directly equating to Aragorn's seems similar to my WoHS moon rules "inspired by" but not directly equating to DL's (for instance, none of the DL moons has a cycle as long as Celene's, which is full only 4 times a year).

Hence my view that if crystal ball-using rangers don't make GH any less GH, an ancient Suel order of wizards whose power is tied to the cycles of the moons (including a small, rapidly orbiting black moon) doesn't either.

Maybe my assumptions are off here, but I thought most Grayhawk fans viewed From The Ashes like I view the Star Wars prequel movies. I know some Grayhawk fans locally who appreciate the Paizohawk material, but none who are fans of the Grayhawk Wars.

I have never used FtA as such, but in my own games similar stuff has come up eg at one stage high level PCs (including some WoHS) were working to help the Great Kingdom prepare its assault on Almor and then Nyrond. The set-up in the folio/boxed set lore is such that some sort of war between the various neighbouring-yet-enemy states (eg GK vs Nyrond; Furyondy vs Iuz) is on the cards. Likewise unions, such as of Iuz and the Horned Society, or Furyondy and Veluna.

If, by the GH Wars, one means not the general outline of events but all of the particulars, like the simultaneous strikes by Scarlet Brotherhood Assassins, Iuz tricking the vikings into going to war, etc - well I think that's all pretty silly and just ignore it.

 

[Hussar]

This is a disingenuous representation of my stance in that thread since I have from the beginning of the thread argued the gnome does fit cannon. It is your limited interpretation of canon, regulated to the first trilogy that has caused you to mistakenly claim the gnome does not fit DL canon.

EDIT: Oh and to take it a step further creativity within bounds can be just as, and often more, interesting (as well as alot less silly) than creativity without any bounds.

Sigh, no it does not. Wild magic is not added to the setting until after Dragons of Summer Flame. Which is set decades after the War of the Lance.

Want to try again?

 

[I'm A Banana]

Sigh, no it does not. Wild magic is not added to the setting until after Dragons of Summer Flame. Which is set decades after the War of the Lance.

Want to try again?

That's not actually the case, but to avoid derailing this thread with more gnome shenanigans, just read the other one.