What's the Philosophy behind Planar games?

[Carnifex]

It's all about philosophies and beliefs for us. I'm a die-hard Planescape fan.

Same here

Also big features are the immensity and sheer wonder of the planes - the sights to see, the phenomena to interact with.

 

[rbingham2000]

Same here

Also big features are the immensity and sheer wonder of the planes - the sights to see, the phenomena to interact with.

Oh yeah...

I personally don't own Planescape or any of the other planar books (like Manual of the Planes), but I did look through the Wiki Book concerning planes, which I believe is still on the forums.

That said, I think of the planes as entire new worlds to explore, and if you're designing one of these worlds, you can really let your imagination run wild.

I'd love to write a sword-and-sorcery saga someday that has the heroes traveling not only through different countries and cultures, but through different worlds as well. Kinda like Moorcock's Eternal Champions, only without the cosmic powers and deities.

 

[Staffan]

Sense of wonder, and the coolest city ever to grace the pages of a RPG supplement (that's Sigil for you berks).

 

[Deadguy]

I think I will chime in to point to the other side of the argument: why I don't like Planar Adventures. It's not that I haven't done them, in the past, but now I've created my own cosmology just so as I could avoid them. There are several things which combine for me to make Planar adventures a good deal duller than 'Material Plane' adventures:

1. If today's Thursday, then this must be Limbo: several people have talked about the sense of wonder that the Planes evoke. But my experience has been that by the time you've dealt with the fifth whacky plane the DM has come up with, the names are blurring, the details muddying, and all the lustre has rubbed off! Planes can be too much a crutch for DMs who want to set aside consequences and mess about with some dumb idea they pillaged from TV, film or book! It's really hard to hold a sense of wonder when you know that by next session the DM's bored with this plane, and has had ideas for an even cooler plane!
2. Small Fish in Infinite Ponds: as a PC it gets frustrating when you finally develop some power, only to have ti all natched away from you again by a DM who goes 'but in the Abyss you're nothing!' No matter what you seem to do you are but a mere pawn in the schemes of immortal powers that outmatch by by many many degrees of potency, so there's no use in arguing with them!
3. Cogs in the Great Machine: there's something about D&D planar adventures that brings out the worst in DMs. Perhaps it's the fact that the PCs are travelling to the very Heavens and Hells themselves, but before you know it there's bound to be a God somewhere that has a mission for you, and a destiny you cannot escape. I know that this happens in smaller scale campaigns too, but the urge to be 'God' seems to grow exponentially in planar settings!
4. Everything Matters... So Nothing Does: tying in with the remarks about 'absolutes' and eternal factions, planar adventures seem to generally involve really bad things happeneing to the Multiverse unless the PCs intervene. No longer is an Orc invasion of Galapadyi. Instead we have Planar invasions where whole worlds are enslaved, or planets devoured by mad ancient beings awoken from their slumbers, or the fabric of magic unravelling because the Gods sort of forgot to stop the mad demon-prince's son from cutting down the Orchard of Infinite Power. I know some get excited at these tales, but instead to me it feels like 'ho hum! better fix it so we can have another disaster next week'.

I regard it as one of D&D's weaknesses that it's predicated on planar advenacement as PCs advance, since it's harder to build a single world that can hold high-level PC interest. But not impossible, I hope.

And to those of you who are enjoying their Planar Sojourns: good luck to ya! You're gonna need it!

 

[the Jester]

Deadguy, I can appreciate your points! A good alternative for high-level groups is the Underdark, but it's just as cliched these days as the planes. A couple of other good possibilities are underwater, seaborn or upper-atmosphere environments (cloud castles, etc).

In general, I think challenging environments are more a part of the game than plane travel per se, but they're often consummated as plane travel.

 

[Aeolius]

A couple of other good possibilities are underwater...

You rang? Granted, I enjoy saltwater aquariums, D&D, and writing, so a 3e D&D campaign set beneath the surface of the sea was a natural.

 

[reiella]

Why do people like playing on different planes? Is it just the chance to use different monsters and have different factions in play? Is it hard to adventure floating around a plane? How are other planes different from the Material in terms of impacting adventures and how PCs acquit themselves?

Exploration.

Exploitation.

Extermination.

3 Xs ain't half bad (Expansion doesn't make much sense unless you are an empire ;P)

The Planes are vast, they are very surreal/unreal, very interesting to explore.

The Planes have many amazing natural resources that are available (the River Styx, etc) that may be necessary for different wars.

The Planes are also home to the Darkest Evils.

Note, I'm not talking about the Planescape setting play either, just a more broad sense. Planescape also has the amazing theme going for it.

 

[Deadguy]

Deadguy, I can appreciate your points! A good alternative for high-level groups is the Underdark, but it's just as cliched these days as the planes. A couple of other good possibilities are underwater, seaborn or upper-atmosphere environments (cloud castles, etc).

In general, I think challenging environments are more a part of the game than plane travel per se, but they're often consummated as plane travel.

Glad to see there are others who can understand how I feel! Yes, your ideas for alternative locales that can still provide a real challenge for PCs are good ones. And I think you have the rub of it, too, that it's locales that can challenge, and they don't need to be on some Outer Plane for it to be so.

I also think that in many ways SHARK (where is he these days?) is right in that we ought to challenge the basic premise of the level distribution for D&D, and make the range far larger, with average levels for NPCs above the level 1 glut. That's just a hangover from the early days of the game, when characters only earned experience for killing things or finding gold, the sorts of activities that most NPCs don't get to do. If we build our world so there are powerful people and organisations for them to vie with, and work alongside, many of the demands for extra-planar travel and planar weirdness fall away.

 

[the Jester]

I also think that in many ways SHARK (where is he these days?) is right in that we ought to challenge the basic premise of the level distribution for D&D, and make the range far larger, with average levels for NPCs above the level 1 glut. That's just a hangover from the early days of the game, when characters only earned experience for killing things or finding gold, the sorts of activities that most NPCs don't get to do. If we build our world so there are powerful people and organisations for them to vie with, and work alongside, many of the demands for extra-planar travel and planar weirdness fall away.

Hummm, I think I like that idea too, actually... especially since I give xp for roleplaying (I have a codified system for it, actually).

Maybe each town or city should have a 'mean level' and extrapolate both upward and downward from it...?

 

[reiella]

Hummm, I think I like that idea too, actually... especially since I give xp for roleplaying (I have a codified system for it, actually).

Maybe each town or city should have a 'mean level' and extrapolate both upward and downward from it...?

Heh, I actually do this in my game currently, and I got looks from people who thought it odd for there to be a 7th level commoner about (and unforunately they thought the level was solely to impede use of Sleep :x, oh well).

Although that sounds like a different topic than the Planes

So I'll include some more depth as to what I like about Planescape myself .

I like the 'feel' of Sigil and the bordertowns alot more than the traditional medieval frpg city (more renaissance era type theme and metropolitan).

(Initially) entities that were undefined and meant to remain as such (Die Vecna Die disrupts this and it is sad).

The nature of Sigil and the bordertowns being more metropolitan also lends itself alot more to being used in social encounters.

At times it also can be used to probe the nature of existance (or the philosophy debates) and the dead gods.