D&D 5E What's the worst spell?

[Kalshane]

I don't doubt that there are situations where RoE is useful, it is just that with all the restrictions, it is far to niche to justify. Ranged Spell Attack (which can obviously miss), Concentration, Save every round to end, and for what? Half damage on STR weapon attacks. Not unarmed, claw, bite, or slam attacks (rules out most bestial monsters). Not DEX based attacks (which, in 5e, can be quite prevalent). I can still grapple you just fine under the effects of the spell, or escape your grapple, thank you very much. This fails my criteria earlier in the thread of actually delivering on what it says in the fiction. Obviously, sometimes delivering on all implied aspects of the fiction of the spell would be too much, but this doesn't even attempt it, really. And if you happen to hit with it, you may only get one round of use out of it, as big hulking brutes that use STR weapon attacks tend to have decent CON saves. At least let it apply to all STR based attacks (maybe DEX based as well), and perhaps disadvantage to STR based ability checks?

You know, I missed the "Weapon" part in the spell description. That definitely makes it even worse. Oh well, as DM I will continue to allow it to apply to Strength-based natural attacks. (Weapons-only seems like a really silly restriction.)

 

[jaelis]

You know, I missed the "Weapon" part in the spell description. That definitely makes it even worse. Oh well, as DM I will continue to allow it to apply to Strength-based natural attacks. (Weapons-only seems like a really silly restriction.)

It isn't weapons only, it is "weapon attacks" only, like in contrast to "spell attacks." So most natural attacks still qualify.

 

[Phazonfish]

I want to say, I'm really happy I made this topic and about those who have opposed my claims here, because it has been a real learning experience, so thank you all.

Blur is better than Mirror Image for anyone who has a high AC already. Blur + heavy armor + shield + Shield

So typically an eldritch knight who is okay putting one of his/her school unrestricted spell choice, his/her off hand which now can't be used to hold a weapon, a second level spell slot, a first level spell slot per round, and his/her concentration all toward AC. And who has the strength to wear heavy armor. Seems like kind of a specific build, if you want to be unhitable you could always through Mirror Image on top anyway. If you have heavy armor proficiency and Blur and are not the above, you must have gotten the prof from either a feat or multiclassing into being a gish wizard, which I don't see or hear of very often, so I can't really speak on. I will say though, that if you are holding a shield, it seems less likely you are using strength for damage and dex makes your mirror images disappear slower.

Blur + heavy armor + shield + Shield will let you tank a platoon of forty orogs (even if they set up a goblin conga line) or githyanki for long enough for your buddies to kill them. Mirror Image will have almost zero effect.

Given 5e action economy, how often do you face forty of something, much less forty of something that could hit you consistently enough that you would need Blur despite having a high AC already? Of those that hit, how long would it take for them to whittle down your hp? Is that amount of time shorter than the amount of time it would take to decimate the horde with, say, a fireball or other decent AoE?

In fact, I've been really disappointed with how Mirror Image works out in play. I initially thought it would be nice against single big monsters, especially because there is no concentration cost, but a couple of years of experience later, my main impression is that it's almost never worth casting because anything tough enough that it would be useful is likely to have blindsight or truesight and be able to ignore it. It's probably more worthwhile for lightly-armored AC 13-15 wizards of course, because their threshold is lower for which monsters are "tough enough to need Mirror Image against." But it isn't useful for gishes, and even the lightly-armored wizards are probably better off (IMO) just casting Expeditious Retreat and/or hiding.

This is true. It seems like it's very difficult to analyze how balanced things are for gishes, which explains how we got the bladesinger. Do keep in mind however that anything that can see through Mirror Image can also see through Blur.

I'm not gonna quote people here cause a lot has been said on the matter, but upon rereading Magic Mouth and learning that you can choose to have it persist after delivering its message, as well as hearing all the creative uses for it, I've been sold. Magic Mouth sounds really cool, and more importantly it seems like the way you use it is all about the power of preparation, which I feel is the central theme of playing a wizard. I had a few things to say about some of the uses people proposed, but the spell seems useful even after such considerations, and this has been a long post, so I'd rather go take a walk and stretch my legs. Thanks again everyone.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

So typically an eldritch knight who is okay putting one of his/her school unrestricted spell choice, his/her off hand which now can't be used to hold a weapon,

Note that it's typically not much of a sacrifice to drop (or sheathe) your weapon to free up a hand for Shield--because if you were going to Shield you can't threaten opportunity attacks anyway. You can always pick your weapon up again next round when you want to attack. (Or maybe you're just going to attack with a cantrip anyway, like Eldritch Blast.)

(One exception is when you're grappling someone--in that case you really want to be a Warcaster.)

a second level spell slot, a first level spell slot per round,

Usually not per round. That's part of the attraction of Blur--when it's appropriate to use, it greatly reduces the rate at which you need to expend Shield spells.

and his/her concentration all toward AC. And who has the strength to wear heavy armor. Seems like kind of a specific build, if you want to be unhitable you could always through Mirror Image on top anyway. If you have heavy armor proficiency and Blur and are not the above, you must have gotten the prof from either a feat or multiclassing into being a gish wizard, which I don't see or hear of very often, so I can't really speak on. I will say though, that if you are holding a shield, it seems less likely you are using strength for damage and dex makes your mirror images disappear slower.

Putting Mirror Image on top is basically a waste of an action.

And yes, I had multiclass gishes particularly in mind. Blur isn't a terrible choice for an Eldritch Knight but it isn't one I'd typically pick (that would be Magic Weapon), so I'm thinking of e.g. Life Cleric 1/Wizard X or Fighter 1/Wizard X, or Rogue 2/Bladesinger X, or Paladin 6+/Sorcerer 3+.

I don't follow why you think holding a shield implies Dex-oriented build. IME the bias is slightly in the opposite direction: Dex-oriented fighters have better ranged capability and are less likely, at any given instant, to be holding a shield.

 

[Phazonfish]

Note that it's not much of a sacrifice to drop (or sheathe) your weapon to free up a hand for Shield--because if you were going to Shield you can't threaten opportunity attacks anyway. You can always pick your weapon up again next round when you want to attack. (Or maybe you're just going to attack with a cantrip anyway, like Eldritch Blast.)

Actually I meant you need a hand for the shield you are holding, not your Shield spell; I took into consideration your build might have Warcaster.

Usually not. That's the attraction of Blur--when it's appropriate to use, it greatly reduces the rate at which you need to expend Shield spells.

I assumed Shield was being used because you included it in your list of factors increasing your AC. Personally I would pop Shield to prevent me from having to use Blur rather than the other way around because it doesn't take an action, uses smaller slots, and doesn't take concentration, but I can certainly understand the appeal of not wanting to use too many slots, even smaller ones, if a fight looks like it will drag out, especially give an eldritch knight's third caster quantity of spell slots.

Putting Mirror Image on top is basically a waste of an action.

Honestly, I was not sure what your build's typically strategy is. I agree Mirror Image + Blur takes too many actions if your goal isn't "become as unhittable as possible" but I couldn't say for certain that it wasn't.

And yes, I had multiclass gishes particularly in mind. Blur isn't a terrible choice for an Eldritch Knight but it isn't one I'd typically pick (that would be Magic Weapon), so I'm thinking of e.g. Life Cleric 1/Wizard X or Fighter 1/Wizard X, or Rogue 2/Bladesinger X, or Paladin 6+/Sorcerer 3+.

Fair enough. I would assume if most of your levels are in a full casting class I would assume your concentration could be better spent elsewhere, but as I have said, multiclass gishes confound me.

I don't follow why you think holding a shield implies Dex-oriented build. IME the bias is slightly in the opposite direction: Dex-oriented fighters have better ranged capability and are less likely, at any given instant, to be holding a shield.

I wasn't saying that a shield strictly means a dex build, just that martial characters get a lot of power out of Sharpshooter, Great Weapon Master, and Sneak Attack, two of which require attacking with dex and the remaining one requiring a two-handed weapon.

 

[Gadget]

Kinda surprised no one has at least mentioned time stop. Possibly not the strictly worst spell, especially since it's defensive and flavorful in nature, but it does actively prevent you from dealing damage. One could say, it has a "negative damage per round" cost.

It costs you 1 Action to gain 2-5 actions in which you cannot affect someone else. It might be a great buffer spell, except that most personal buffs require concentration. And you can do nothing to help your allies, either. There are several situational uses, of course, plus the coolness factor, but a relatively useless spell, considering what you can accomplish with 1 Action.
@lowkey13, I'd like to add to the list!

Completely agree about Timestop. It used to be that you could layer up buffs and Delayed Blast Fireballs and such, but with concentration, no more. I suppose you could use the extra time to layer Grease spells about the battlefield (along with banana peals no doubt), quaff a potion or two, maybe put up one concentration spell. I think higher level sub-par spells don't get talked about as much because they are not in play as much, and many campaigns never reach the highest levels.

Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting
Animate Dead
Barkskin
Blade Ward
Drawmij's Instant Summons
Feign Death
Find Traps
Friends
Holy Word
Mending
Mordenkainen's Sword
Phantasmal Killer
Ray of Enfeeblement
Time Stop
True Strike
Weird
Wish
Witch Bolt

Any others?

I would add Crown of Madness to the list. Personally, I think Barkskin is just very poorly written, not exactly weak. Mending is merely a utility spell, not so much of a 'trap' option as other spells on the list. And Wish? really? Contagion, based upon the Sage Advice 'explanation' is very weak. Or at the very least, very poorly written.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Chikiko Saotome]

OK, here's a proposal for quantifying how sucky a spell is: suppose you reduced it's level by one: would you be willing to cast it then? For a level 1 spell, say you got the level 2 effect for a level 1 slot. So WB would do 2d12 in the first round, 1d12 after. Mord's would still be 3d10 at level 6.

By that measure, I think witch bolt passes. It wouldn't be a great spell, but it would be a reasonable pick at low levels when slots are scarce and cantrips are only one die. If you got the follow up damage for two rounds it would be about the same as magic missile plus cantrips, and if you had advantage on the initial attack it would take just one round of follow up.

In comparison, Mord's sword at level 6 would still be worse than an upcast flaming sphere. And almost always you'd be better off casting disintegrate if you're just after damage.

---

Alternatively, compare WB upcast to 7th level with MS. WB does 7d12 = 45.5 damage in the first round, and then you'd probably end it to cast something else. MS does 3d10 = 17.5, so you'd need 3 rounds of MS to catch WB. I think I'd rather take the damage all up front and not have to worry about maintaining concentration.

WB becomes a bit better if you have some way to deal damage on a bonus action, and keep your continual damage. How you get that bonus action damage i have no idea. either from a multiclass ability or some kind of racial ability. That said, what do you if you either don't know disintegrate or are not allowed to use it for whatever reason?

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Actually I meant you need a hand for the shield you are holding, not your Shield spell; I took into consideration your build might have Warcaster.

I assumed Shield was being used because you included it in your list of factors increasing your AC. Personally I would pop Shield to prevent me from having to use Blur rather than the other way around because it doesn't take an action, uses smaller slots, and doesn't take concentration, but I can certainly understand the appeal of not wanting to use too many slots, even smaller ones, if a fight looks like it will drag out, especially give an eldritch knight's third caster quantity of spell slots.

Honestly, I was not sure what your build's typically strategy is. I agree Mirror Image + Blur takes too many actions if your goal isn't "become as unhittable as possible" but I couldn't say for certain that it wasn't.

I usually don't have builds with a generic "typical strategy." I'm more a fan of having a basket of capabilities (e.g. kite/Dodge/grapple/Blur/sneak), so you can tailor your strategy to the exigencies of the scenario. Blur is actually one of those capabilities, like the Lucky feat, that I've been glad to have but have rarely needed because in the scenarios which have actually transpired (e.g. two mid-level PCs facing a couple of Frost Giants), other tactics (like Dodge + Warcastered Booming Blade) have been cheaper and sufficiently effective. (I think Blur might have gotten cast once when I was grappled by army ants and could not Dodge; but it's also possible that someone threw down a Hypnotic Pattern first--I can't remember.)

Contrast this with capabilities like Quickened Mirror Image which I now sort of regret because have yet to see a scenario where I would have wanted to cast it, even if I didn't have other capabilities. (Fortunately you can retrain sorcerer spells.)

Fair enough. I would assume if most of your levels are in a full casting class I would assume your concentration could be better spent elsewhere, but as I have said, multiclass gishes confound me.

It's complicated. First priority is staying alive; second priority is killing (or disabling) the other guy. If the party is all together, it's nice to be able to tank while the other PCs focus on killing the other guys--but that doesn't necessarily mean that you actually will wind up tanking, with or without Blur. Some other option could be even better; and some contingencies never occur.

I wasn't saying that a shield strictly means a dex build, just that martial characters get a lot of power out of Sharpshooter, Great Weapon Master, and Sneak Attack, two of which require attacking with dex and the remaining one requiring a two-handed weapon.

Ah, I see. BTW, Sneak Attack doesn't require attacking with Dex. You can use a Finesse weapon like a Rapier and still get sneak attack even if you choose to attack with Strength.

 

[Chikiko Saotome]

Regenerate is good on paper, trust me I prepared it, but not good in practice. A minutes casting time for example means you need to prepare, and plenty of times you don't have this luxury. Right now in our fight against Tiamat regenerate would be useless, anyone unlucky enough to drop to zero HP would be eaten. Heal is what's keeping us alive in the fight.

Youre great at theorycraft but experience often paints a different picture. Are you really going to waste a 7th level slot when healing hit dice can suffice for out of combat healing? Regenerate does have its uses but Heal is vastly better for those moments IN COMBAT when you really need it.

it seems like regenerate might be good if you know your about to start a fight soon. where as heal is the shoot! the tank just dropped to 0 and i need to get him back up now type spell.