Whats the worst you've ever read? Scifi/Fanstasy

[devilish]

Having not read the Covenent books, I'm not qualified to judge the rest, but I will say that I disagree respectfully with this. As a literary critique, perhaps I need to read it all and think about it contextually before saying what I think, but as a customer, I have the right to say "It's bad" as soon as I decide that I don't want to keep reading it*. If I bought a chair that made my back hurt, and the guy at the chair store said, "Hey, just try it for a few more weeks, really, before saying that it's not comfortable," I would give him the raised eyebrow of doom.

* With the caveat that "It's bad" in this instance only means "I don't personally enjoy it," and is not an objective value judgment by any stretch.

Yes, but the same could be said if you tried working out or eating better and gave up. A friend say "Just try it for a few more weeks and you'll see."
That's giving up.

 

[Mallus]

If I bought a chair that made my back hurt, and the guy at the chair store said, "Hey, just try it for a few more weeks, really, before saying that it's not comfortable," I would give him the raised eyebrow of doom.QUOTE]
Sure... but on the other hand, books aren't chairs. If I never returned to certain books I didn't like upon first reading, then I would have missed out on some of the most pleasurable reading experiences of my life.

I know they are books worth discarding after 10 pages. And others whose rewards become fully apparent only after hundreds of pages.

The problem is telling one from other when you first begin reading...

 

[Storm Raven]

Having not read the Covenent books, I'm not qualified to judge the rest, but I will say that I disagree respectfully with this. As a literary critique, perhaps I need to read it all and think about it contextually before saying what I think, but as a customer, I have the right to say "It's bad" as soon as I decide that I don't want to keep reading it*. If I bought a chair that made my back hurt, and the guy at the chair store said, "Hey, just try it for a few more weeks, really, before saying that it's not comfortable," I would give him the raised eyebrow of doom.

Of course, a chair isn't a book, so your analogy basically doesn't make sense.

In the case of a book (or a movie, or television show for that matter), it is not uncommon for the payoff on something to come deep into the subject matter. For the Covenant books, saying that they are awful after just 100 pages misses a lot of what makes the books worthwhile.

In point of fact, if you don't read all of the way through a book, you don't know if a book is bad, and saying so makes you look foolish. The best you can say is that you didn't enjoy it enough to finish it, and it may be good or bad, depending upon the content of the material you didn't read.

 

[KnowTheToe]

But if the book can't grab your attention or interest after 100 pages why would you continue? Is it really a good book if the author takes too long to engage the reader? IMO, almost everything ever written has some level of merit, but it does not mean they are always god reads.

If I gave you a crap flavored lolly-pop with a center of honey is it really worth all of that crap just to get to the good part? Why not get something with less of a crap flavor to start with.

I say, if one book does not grab your interest, toss it aside and choose another.

 

[Storm Raven]

But if the book can't grab your attention or interest after 100 pages why would you continue? Is it really a good book if the author takes too long to engage the reader? IMO, almost everything ever written has some level of merit, but it does not mean they are always god reads.

Most people who toss aside the Covenant books do so because of a single scene that takes up a single page within the first 100 pages. But if you toss aside a series of books that spans more than 3,000 pages because you didn't like the first 100, are you truly qualified to judge whether the books are good or not?

 

[Wombat]

Personally, I tried three times, all false attempts, to read Lord Foul's Bane. I never got beyond page 75.

Then I had a friend recommend the series to me; he told me that if I only persevered, I would come to admire the series. I respected his reading habits and also I understand the difference between a hero (King Arthur) and a protagonist (Raskolnikov). So I plowed on in.

I finished the book.

I ended up loathing Covenant even more, finding The Land boring, and having no further interest in reading anything else by the author, either in that series or any other.

So, I gave Donaldson not 1, but four different chances with the series. Not only did they not pan out initially but, when I finally made my way through the first book, I found no reason to keep going. At least at the end of The Fellowship of the Ring, or the end of the first third of War & Peace, Le Morte D'Arthur, and Crime & Punishment, I was excited to keep going.

For those of you who like Donaldson's Covenant books, good luck to you and I hope you like the latest batch. But remember there are a lot of us who do not like him, will not like him, and have even given him the chance. Please don't expect us to change our minds.

 

[devilish]

Personally, I tried three times, all false attempts, to read Lord Foul's Bane. I never got beyond page 75.

Then I had a friend recommend the series to me; he told me that if I only persevered, I would come to admire the series. I respected his reading habits and also I understand the difference between a hero (King Arthur) and a protagonist (Raskolnikov). So I plowed on in.

I finished the book.

I ended up loathing Covenant even more, finding The Land boring, and having no further interest in reading anything else by the author, either in that series or any other.

So, I gave Donaldson not 1, but four different chances with the series. Not only did they not pan out initially but, when I finally made my way through the first book, I found no reason to keep going. At least at the end of The Fellowship of the Ring, or the end of the first third of War & Peace, Le Morte D'Arthur, and Crime & Punishment, I was excited to keep going.

For those of you who like Donaldson's Covenant books, good luck to you and I hope you like the latest batch. But remember there are a lot of us who do not like him, will not like him, and have even given him the chance. Please don't expect us to change our minds.

This was my exact reaction to Lord of the Rings!

I don't think we're trying to convert -- just saying that you can't judge
a book by it's cover/first 100 or so pages. I started reading Tigana, and kept starting and stopping after the first 50 pages and couldn't get into it.
Finally, I got through it and loved it! If I had
given up after those starts and stops, I would've missed out.

That's what we're trying to convey. It's just getting a bit hot in
here with the "Argh! I hate Thomas Covenant more than pig vomit! Argh!!
Argh! Argh!"

-D

 

[Mallus]

But if the book can't grab your attention or interest after 100 pages why would you continue? Is it really a good book if the author takes too long to engage the reader?

I think there are extremely rewarding books that aren't immediately rewarding books... in fact, I'd put LotR in that category.

If I gave you a crap flavored lolly-pop with a center of honey is it really worth all of that crap just to get to the good part? Why not get something with less of a crap flavor to start with.

What if the center wasn't honey? What if it was enlightenment or pharmaceutical grade morphine?

What if sometimes writing shouldn't be compared to the outer covering of a Charms blow-pop?

I say, if one book does not grab your interest, toss it aside and choose another.

I say, usually that's a good plan, but sometimes you'll being throwing away the gold with the dross.

Mind you, I'm totally not refering to Covenant in this...

 

[barsoomcore]

I think this is an overly simplistic view of Paul/Muad'Dib, Alia, and Leto II/Ghanima mythos.

You think?

On the whole "Try it, try it again, try it again!" thing:

If a writer creates a book that is hard to read, they shouldn't be surprised if lots of people don't like it. Lots of artist set out to make deliberately challenging, difficult, unpleasant works. Nothing wrong with that, just like there's nothing wrong with not liking such things.

It is true that some pleasures must be acquired. You have to make yourself like it.

When I first started reading sonnets, I had to force myself to do it. Sonnets are hard to read -- their rewards are unfamiliar to modern readers, and take training and persistence to acquire. I'm glad I did so, because no matter how good you think William Shakespeare is, if you don't understand the Shakespearean sonnet, you don't know how good he REALLY is.

Same thing with jazz -- first time I heard Thelonious Monk I had no appreciation for it and didn't pay any attention. Little different, now.

Same thing with BEER, for crying out loud. When I was a kid I thought beer was revolting. You can learn to like anything, I guess.

Not everything is worth putting that effort into, of course, and we all of us have to make decisions on where we spend our time, and sometimes we decide without ALL the information at hand, because, hey, I can just read a different book, right?

Somebody who hasn't actually finished a book, however, isn't in much of a position to say much about it except "I didn't finish it and here's why."

 

[Villano]

In my previous post, I forgot to add another book, Night Of The Crabs, by Guy N. Smith. Smith is a British horror novelist known for churning out cheesy and sleezy books. A few friends recommended his series of books about giant, killer crabs. They described them as homages to the 50s giant monsters, as crabs battle tanks and jets.

They sounded like fun books, so I took to tracking them down. Sadly, even though he wrote something like 5 or 6 of the series, only 3 were printed in the US. Luckily, I was able to snag them on eBay from a library unloading its old books. I managed to get the set for only a couple of bucks.

The first book was Origin Of The Crabs. It was kind of stupid and I was a bit disappointed that the promised crabs vs tanks never occur in this novel (only a few people know of the crabs, they are all dead by the end, and the menace continues unbeknownst to the world), but I found it to be fun.

Here's a pretty funny (and spot on) review of this book: http://www.geocities.com/paladin_s98/cliff5.html

Since I liked the first novel, I immediately jumped into volume 2. However, Night Of The Crabs was just awful. This time, the crabs come ashore at a resort island and finally do battle with the military. Talk about being careful for what you wish.

I doubt anyone would accuse Smith of being a good writer, but Origin had its own goofy charm. Unfortunately, the sequel is populated with unlikeable characters and people doing the dumbest things possible.

And then there are the crabs. In the first book, the crabs are described as being the size of cows. Pretty darn big for a crab and certainly enough to present itself as a threat to a man. However, the crabs are no bigger in this novel. A crab the size of a cow is not going to be able to carry away a tank or survive artillery fire.

Oh, I actually mispoke there. There are a few crabs bigger than cows in this book. The big ones are described as being the size of donkeys!

"But, wait", you say as you scratch your head in confusion, "aren't donkeys actually smaller than cows?"

Yes, my friends, Guy N. Smith has apparently never seen either a donkey or a cow and clearly was too lazy to research them. If you want a good laugh, check this website. Scroll down a little bit and you'll see several pictures of men ridding these gigantic creatures known as donkeys! Surely, you can picture how a crab this size could carry away a tank!

http://www.imh.org/imh/bw/donkey.html

Oh, and before I forget, the ending is truely noteworthy. You see, Night of the Crabs was printed 2nd in the US because that is when it takes place chronologically. It was actually published later in the series originally. The novel ends as the crabs have pretty much killed everyone and are continuing on their way. Then there's a one paragraph afterward that says that some scientist found a way to kill them.

Honestly, I can't remember is the scientist is even mentioned anywhere else in the book! He may have had a cameo, but that was about it. Terrible, terrible way to end a book.