Whats Wrong with Ganking CRPG Stuff???

[ThirdWizard]

I don't really like the idea of limit breaks being based on bloodied or near death state. Being jacked up should be a penalty not something you shoot for so you can pull off your level 4 limit break and bring down some lasers from space action.

Barbarian rage going off at Bloodied sounds neat to me as an example. (PHBII)

 

[Henry]

I will concede the existence of MP-style systems before Dragon Quest, then. Since you didn't mention per-encounter balancing, I think I will take it that you accept videogames may have been an inspiration for the idea.

Actually, I didn't mention it because you said earlier that per-encounter in RPGs has nothing to do with video games; I mistook that to mean you didn't think it had its origins in video games. However, I will say that comic books were likely the earliest inspiration for that; most heroes can use their webbing/power blast/reverso-vortex/etc. all day long if they want, or at least until they need a couple minutes' rest. In a game, the first super hero RPGs like Villains and Vigilantes probably take that credit.

What do you mean by things being "fleshed out by fiction"? Rules do not exist in written fiction (and any good writer will tell you that any rule described in a text only exists to be broken).

"Most other RPG innovations that I've heard of came were first fleshed out in either fiction or other RPGs." Not just rules, but innovations in general. Jack Vance didn't have hard and fast rules for his "memorization system" but it did serve as inspiration for the hard rules that Gary Gygax set down for D&D back in the 70's.

Hmm... this will take some thought...

Thanks for the awesome list, by the way; there are some really neat ideas in there, ones that could be fleshed out to good form on pen and paper. While I still consider the medium of video games in general secondary to a good rousing tabletop game (heck, the worst day gaming is still better than the best day fishing ), you did give me some great food for thought.

 

[DungeonMaester]

I would like to elaborate more on a comment I made which passed with obscure notice.

I belive there are three different styles of fighting players like depending one what type of fiction they are use too. The three styles are:


Cinnimatic: Realistic but exagearted, these warriors are the shaloin sages and the fencing masters. While they are a bit overly acrobatic they dont use any sort of falshy energy attack.

Epic: The Epic character is the same as the cinnimatic character but has gone down a different path. The are not as swift as a they are but what they lack in speed they make up for in strentgh. the movie 300 and Homer's Illad and Odyess, along with Sampson are good examplees of a Epic type character. Epic characters may also have powers that a flashy character has, but when they are used do not announce them self in the manner a flashy character does.

Flashy: This character is your typical anime or video game character. When ever a flashy character uses a ability or a attack it will announce it's self in some way, usaly in the form of enegery aura before the actauly aura itself.

The style of each players character can play a huge role in a party, but the different play styles can cause rifts.

People who can't express that properly will say: 'Thats to anime/videogamey'

---Rusty

 

[Scribble]

So, care to give an example of a Rules Heavy?

You already did... I wasn't saying your example was incorrect.

When D&D was first created it took ideas from a "popular" game at the time, Wargaming, and added a new concept to it. The idea of playing a single character and using the rules to tell interrelated stories... And the idea of creating not just a character, but a "persona."

So it took something and added more things to it. It added the "human" element. The idea that with the themes and basic characters being more then just numbers, there were more options available.

Same should be true now. Now, CRPGs are the popular game. Why shouldn't D&D take the ideas that work, and add it's strengths to them? Give the CRPG enthusiasts the strengths from CRPGs but add more options and the "human" element to it?

The customization of TTRPGS with some of the fun elements of CRPGs.

 

[TwinBahamut]

This reminds me of Incarnum.

It should. A ot of people (me included) are under the impression that the Incarnum system was directly inspired by Final Fantasy 7.

The biggest reason for this are the flavor similarities. Incarnum is described as glowing-blue cloud-like energy, the substance of souls. There are certain people with greater connection to Incarnum who are distinguished oky by their unusual glowing blue eyes.

In FF7, Materia is made from the Mako energy of the Lifestream. This substance is the current of soulstuff, and takes on a wispy, glowing-green cloud-like form. People who are showered with Mako and given added magical power, as well as the Ancients who have a connection to the Lifestream, have unusual glowing blue eyes.

It is something that seems a bit more than a coincidence, if you ask me.

Also, Henry, I am glad I at least gave you some food for thought. And sorry for being a bit inconsistant on the per-encounter balancing thing.

 

[The Little Raven]

D&D evolved out of boardgames and boardgames, but videogames evolved out of D&D.

Just wanted to point something out. The computer-RPG genre may have evolved out of D&D, but videogames, as a medium, did not.

 

[TwinBahamut]

Just wanted to point something out. The computer-RPG genre may have evolved out of D&D, but videogames, as a medium, did not.

Well, I know. Videogames as a whole evolved out of Pong. I guess I should have said "videogame RPGs" there, because that is what I was discussing and thinking of at the time.

 

[Gentlegamer]

You would need a game of D&D being run by omniscient beings in order to get an infinitly open experience.

In regard to the game world, the Dungeon Master is an omniscient (and omnipotent) being.

 

[Hussar]

In regard to the game world, the Dungeon Master is an omniscient (and omnipotent) being.

Unfortunately, he's also not really, so, instead of an omnicient and omnipotent GM, we have our all too human DM who makes mistakes, forgets stuff, stumbles, fumbles and whatnot his way through adventures. He may know everything, but, when it comes time to remember something...

 

[The Green Adam]

By this logic, fantasy fiction should never be used as a source of inspiration as it's incredibly limited - characters can only ever act as they are written. We could only be inspired by other rpgs.

The characters can only act as they are written? Um...yes. That I suppose is correct. I would really be impressed if characters in a written work could act in any way other then how their creator put on the paper. :\ Fantasy fiction as a source is essentially unlimited because you can write down anything you think of. Few things in my opinion are as unlimited as the written word.

Also I don't see crpgs as being more limited than tabletop. Mods could potentially be created to do anything in a crpg. In a tabletop game one is greatly limited by the other players. Say I want to start a smuggling operation and the other players and DM all want to do a dungeon bash. Limitation. Say I want to run up the dragon's tail and the DM says I can't. Limitation. Say I want to play 1e and the other players want to play 3.5. Limitation.

Can mods add original content and dungeons of your own design to the crpg you're playing? Can I decide to play a Gnome Shaman in WoW. Um...no. I would need to rewrite the program right? I mean, there are things you just can't do. Have you gotten an Alliance character up to 70th level in WoW? If so, have you done it again? What about a third time? Were your final three quests very different? There are only a small, set number of quests in that game. In City of Heroes I think I've defeated the Clockwork King as part of a Task Force Mission about 5 times.

If you want to do something and your GM says no, its your GM that is limited or limiting and not the game itself. If my players want a dungeon bash but one guy wants to be a smuggler, well heck I'll find a way to pull it off.

I ran a game not long ago based an a japanese table-top RPG heavily influenced by MMORPGs (yeah sorry, the idea isn't new). It was fun and very novel but really didn't sustain a long campaign. After a while, the particulars were just too particular to me for a medieval fantasy game.

To me, table-top gaming has always been about applying rules and numbers to things from your imagination. In doing so you can pit your imagination against and along side the imagination of others. Say onto me, "Create what you like and what you think would be cool and fun" and I'm a happy camper.

Now where are my Traveller books...

AD