D&D 5E What's wrong with this psion?

[DND_Reborn]

so it's not as if the Artificer would be the sole outlier here

No, it isn't, and as WotC continues to make classes, I am sure it won't be the last...

 

[Minigiant]

I think the wish list of the psion will make him much more different than the fighter-monk difference.

I'm just talking about how they use different subsystems.

It’s a nice system, but way in opposition with the simplicity chooses for 5ed. You have more chance that Paizo release such a system. The augment mechanics is nice, the list can grow infinitely, but I think it more suitable for a duel like game such as a card game. In a DnD game situation, all these options might add too much time on players turn. 3 psions in the party, and we go back to the 45 minutes turn of 4ed.

But the wizard, the current most complex, noob unfriendly class, exists off pure legacy..

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

My favorite way of doing psionics in 5e would be to use ability check to manifest powers. It also allows the idea that many psi disciplines would require different stats to make sense. The powers would have a check to use, with more effect the more you beat said DC. Powers would be selected from a short pool for each type.

You would have 2 types of Powers: Manifestations (at-will and safe), and Testaments (powerful, but risky). Testaments would be risky because you would gain Exhaustion level if you failed the DC, making the rest of your Powers use for the day more complicated. A feature would let you spend HDs to ignore Exhaustion effect for 1 round.

Ex:
Kinetic Throw (Manifestation)
Action
Instant
Strength or Intelligence

Make an ability check against a DC 12; on a success, choose one object weighing 1 to 5 pounds within range that isn't being worn or carried. The object flies in a straight line up to 60 feet in a direction you choose before falling to the ground, stopping early if it impacts against a solid surface. If the object would strike a creature, that creature must make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, the object strikes the target and stops moving. When the object strikes something, the object and what it strikes each take 2d10 bludgeoning damage.

Augment: The maximum weight of objects that you can target with this spell increases by 5 pounds, and the damage increases by 1d10, for each +5 over the DC.

Summon Ectoplasm (Testament)
Action
1 Minute, Concentration
Wisdom or Intelligence

Make an ability check against a DC 15; on a success, you conjure an Gelatinous Cube within the range of the power for 1 minute or until your concentration ends.

Augment: The creature gains 5 temporary hit point for each +5 over the DC.

 

[humble minion]

I see your point, but the "laugh at you if you brought it to Dark Sun" also invalidates paladins and clerics, so...

(i've posted at GREAT length in various threads here my personal views on paladins and clerics in Dark Sun, so I'll refrain from doing it again! Suffice to say, i'm less intolerant in that department than one might think! )

Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike the artificer. Eberron is not my personal cup of tea, but the artificer has a very firm foundational place in the setting and it's entirely valid there.

I'd just like to see some subclasses that broadened its applicability a bit. The aforementioned magesmith, for instance, could find a place in almost any 'conventional' fantasy dwarven culture where there's a tradition of forging magic weapons. An artificer subclass that focused on the animation and control of minor golems or constructs of stone, flesh, ceramic, bone, wood, etc could fit in almost anywhere - even Dark Sun. But all the artificer subclasses I've seen seem to deliberately double down on the Eberron-y magitech angle rather than exploring other possibilities.

But we're getting very far away from the topic of the thread, to be honest.

 

[DND_Reborn]

But the wizard, the current most complex, noob unfriendly class, exists off pure legacy..

(emphasis mine)

What the heck are you talking about!? What is so hard about Wizards?

Hmm... At level 1, you:

1. Pick 6 spells to have in your spell book.
2. Prepared 1 + INT modifer of those spells after a long rest as the ones you can cast that day.
3. Use your slots to cast the prepared spell.

Not that complex---in fact, people have been doing this and playing wizards for decades without any issues IME.

And considering Clerics, Druids, and Paladin (sort of) work in the same way as far as steps 2 and 3, I hardly think step 1 is what is throwing people for a loop...

 

[TwoSix]

(i've posted at GREAT length in various threads here my personal views on paladins and clerics in Dark Sun, so I'll refrain from doing it again! Suffice to say, i'm less intolerant in that department than one might think! )

Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike the artificer. Eberron is not my personal cup of tea, but the artificer has a very firm foundational place in the setting and it's entirely valid there.

I'd just like to see some subclasses that broadened its applicability a bit. The aforementioned magesmith, for instance, could find a place in almost any 'conventional' fantasy dwarven culture where there's a tradition of forging magic weapons. An artificer subclass that focused on the animation and control of minor golems or constructs of stone, flesh, ceramic, bone, wood, etc could fit in almost anywhere - even Dark Sun. But all the artificer subclasses I've seen seem to deliberately double down on the Eberron-y magitech angle rather than exploring other possibilities.

But we're getting very far away from the topic of the thread, to be honest.

Totally fair. I'm not a fan of the general WotC artificer build, because I feel it pushes the base class to far in the "magitech" direction; I think that should be more subclass specific. That's why I use a third-party artificer.

 

[TwoSix]

What the heck are you talking about!? What is so hard about Wizards?

Yea, wizards aren't that complicated; my wife plays one and you'd be hard pressed to find a bigger D&D noob. They do have a higher skill cap, in that knowing how to play a wizard well takes more expertise and you can get a lot more out of the class if you have that expertise. But that doesn't make it noob unfriendly; only classes with a high skill floor I would consider unfriendly. The only class I would really put into that category is maybe druid, just because wild shape is a little more complex to grasp.

 

[Ath'kethin]

My favorite way of doing psionics in 5e would be to use ability check to manifest powers. It also allows the idea that many psi disciplines would require different stats to make sense. The powers would have a check to use, with more effect the more you beat said DC. Powers would be selected from a short pool for each type.

You would have 2 types of Powers: Manifestations (at-will and safe), and Testaments (powerful, but risky). Testaments would be risky because you would gain Exhaustion level if you failed the DC, making the rest of your Powers use for the day more complicated. A feature would let you spend HDs to ignore Exhaustion effect for 1 round.

Ex:
Kinetic Throw (Manifestation)
Action
Instant
Strength or Intelligence

Make an ability check against a DC 12; on a success, choose one object weighing 1 to 5 pounds within range that isn't being worn or carried. The object flies in a straight line up to 60 feet in a direction you choose before falling to the ground, stopping early if it impacts against a solid surface. If the object would strike a creature, that creature must make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, the object strikes the target and stops moving. When the object strikes something, the object and what it strikes each take 2d10 bludgeoning damage.

Augment: The maximum weight of objects that you can target with this spell increases by 5 pounds, and the damage increases by 1d10, for each +5 over the DC.

Summon Ectoplasm (Testament)
Action
1 Minute, Concentration
Wisdom or Intelligence

Make an ability check against a DC 15; on a success, you conjure an Gelatinous Cube within the range of the power for 1 minute or until your concentration ends.

Augment: The creature gains 5 temporary hit point for each +5 over the DC.

Develop this as a full concept, make it pretty, slap it on DMSGuild, and I will give you money for it. I'm serious.

Doesn't even have to be THAT pretty.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I wonder how many people have actually looked at KibblesTasty's Psion? 15 pages worth of psionic traditions over 4 subclasses and 6 disciplines, formated off the Mystic and based around the Warlock template from the looks of it. It's powered by Psi points and grants specialized powers, while in addition allows you to recreate certain spell effects as well (with the only component being Somatic.)

Basically the same way KibblesTasty took the original Artificer playtest and ran with it (and made something much more broad and intricate), they do the same here. Obviously it's not going to satisfy all of you because you each your own idiosyncratic needs for what your Psion "has" to have... but this is I'm sure a lot closer to what you want than the sorcerer subclass coming in Tasha's.

KibblesTasty's Psion Class

 

[TwoSix]

I wonder how many people have actually looked at KibblesTasty's Psion? 15 pages worth of psionic traditions over 4 subclasses and 6 disciplines, formated off the Mystic and based around the Warlock template from the looks of it. It's powered by Psi points and grants specialized powers, while in addition allows you to recreate certain spell effects as well (with the only component being Somatic.)

Basically the same way KibblesTasty took the original Artificer playtest and ran with it (and made something much more broad and intricate), they do the same here. Obviously it's not going to satisfy all of you because you each your own idiosyncratic needs for what your Psion "has" to have... but this is I'm sure a lot closer to what you want than the sorcerer subclass coming in Tasha's.

KibblesTasty's Psion Class

If people haven't, they should. It's really great work.