D&D 5E What's wrong with this psion?

I play with a bunch of people who are in their 40s and 50s and have been playing since B/X and 1e, and one thing they have in common is very little attachment to the idea of psionics in general. Psionics is really a niche interest even among D&D fans.
Maybe, but other games integrate psionics much better, even if as part of a universal magic system. In Blue Rose psionics are one form of arcana. Aspects of psionics are part of the various magical traditions of Shadow of the Demon Lord. Psionics are also a standard part of the Cypher System and Savage Worlds.
 

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Maybe, but other games integrate psionics much better, even if as part of a universal magic system. In Blue Rose psionics are one form of arcana. Aspects of psionics are part of the various magical traditions of Shadow of the Demon Lord. Psionics are also a standard part of the Cypher System and Savage Worlds.
I agree with all that, but it seems like for a large number of posters, having psionics be integrated with magic at all make it's "non-psionic".

I think having psionics as just another magic approach would make it more palatable and popular to a larger audience, but it's tough to align that with those who see integration as a betrayal of the concept.
 

I think a "win" for WotC is just the bottom line in sales; I really don't think they care much beyond that.

About psionics? I agree. They don't care much about psionics beyond sales. And I think it would be a weird if they did care more than that.
 

Could be! I wonder if that is reflected in the voting process, though. DnD is popular beyond ever now, because of the breakthrough to the casual playing audience. Is that audience voting on these things? We'll never know, but I would find it interesting if we could.

I think a "win" for WotC is just the bottom line in sales; I really don't think they care much beyond that.
The designer design first, then put it through internal playtesting, then external playtesting, then the voting. They don't get people to vote on the mechanic first and then design.

But, even if they did that, your argument doesn't hold water. Design is about meeting needs. Sometimes design finds a need without input and it's golden, but that's rare. Much more often, a need is identified and constraints are identified and then design does golden work turning out something that meets both. This is the more common route. But the argument that design needs to be unfettered for the best stuff to happen is just bunk -- quite often constraint spurs design and creativity.
 

I agree with all that, but it seems like for a large number of posters, having psionics be integrated with magic at all make it's "non-psionic".

I think having psionics as just another magic approach would make it more palatable and popular to a larger audience, but it's tough to align that with those who see integration as a betrayal of the concept.
Yeah, having psionics as a form of magic in a similar vein as arcane or divine magic seems like a solid way to integrate and mainstream psionics as a concept in D&D. It would undoubtedly involve some form of loss from what it was in prior editions, but I would much rather see psionics have a solid place in D&D than have it continually be relegated to the margins.

I know the Sorcerer appears as an easy fix, but it seems like WotC ignored an easy option to explore: "what if we designed a psion class that cast spells?" I would hardly mind a spellcasting psion. "BUT WHAT ABOUT VSM COMPONENTS!" And as a character levels up as a psion, they could lose the need for VSM components for spells on their psion spell list. So even if a character multiclassed to another class from psion, their ability to ignore VSM would only apply to spells on the psion spell list. Other psionic abilities could be unlocked through subclass features.
 
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About psionics? I agree. They don't care much about psionics beyond sales. And I think it would be a weird if they did care more than that.
I don't even know how you can say this. Psionics isn't a largely demanded thing for D&D. The designers have spent the entire lifecycle of 5e trying to get a psionics that works (it started in the NEXT playtest, and continued throughout). It's very clear that they tried very hard to find a way to do psionics that was fun and pleasing to the fans. Sure, they're in business, so they have to deal with the money, but the claim that this is the only or even the most important thing to WotC with regards to designing rules is ridiculously bad. They clearly care very much about D&D and their stewardship of it. The money part mostly comes in with the realization that they need to do things well to keep making the money. I think it's incredibly weird to look at the scope and effort the designers have put into 5e and think that it was only about the money.
 


Yeah, having psionics as a form of magic in a similar vein as arcane or divine magic seems like a solid way to integrate and mainstream psionics as a concept in D&D. It would undoubtedly involve some form of loss from what it was in prior editions, but I would much rather see the psionics have a solid place in D&D than have it continually be relegated to the margins.
I like psionics as a form of divine magic, personally (although that might be my Warcraft background showing). Concepts like dedication, focus, faith, and willpower are already in the "divine magic" purview, and psionics seems like an obvious extension of that. Clerics have faith in gods/higher powers, druids commune with natural spirits, paladins focus on their obligations to others via their oaths, and psions commune with their own soul and the souls of the world around them.

I know the Sorcerer appears as an easy fix, but it seems like WotC ignored an easy option to explore: "what if we designed a psion class that cast spells?" I would hardly mind a spellcasting psion. "BUT WHAT ABOUT VSM COMPONENTS!" And as a character levels up as a psion, they could lose the need for VSM components for spells on their psion spell list. So even if a character multiclassed to another class from psion, their ability to ignore VSM would only apply to spells on the psion spell list. Other psionic abilities could be unlocked through subclass features.
Psion class with an Int-focused subclass (erudite, psicrystals, flexibility), Wis-focused subclass (classic telepath/precog), and Cha-focused subclass (Wilder, holds the Carrie/Akira tropes) seems like a layup to me.
 


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