What's Your Favorite System for Star Wars

Geeknamese

Explorer
What makes me think it is overly complex? Reading the rules for the first three skills tells me the rules work differently for different skills. Hence the need for each of the 33 skills to have a half to a whole page of rules. And just reading the rules for the first three talents likewise tells me they create various modifiers in various different ways at various different times. Hence the need for each of the 150 talents to have as short blurb of rules. If a character sheet had to contain all the rules for the skills and talents the character had I think it would be a booklet.

What makes me think it does not look capable of making the cast of the original trilogy. Reading the character generation rules I can't see how to create Princes Lea or Luke Skywalker using Edge of the Empire.

What makes me think characters might not be capable of the daring do seen in the original movie trilogy. The rules. Looking at combat characters are limited in the number and types of actions they can perform, and need various talents to do stuff, and there is a critical hit table. Its not written as free flowing do or try to do whatever you like. Nor do the rules look capable of handling starfighter dogfights or speeder bike chases which are iconic to the movies. I do not fancy starting player character chances eve against say half a dozen or so storm troopers despite in the movies the heroes repeatedly dodging blaster fire with seeming ease. Let alone Ewoks taking down AT-ST walkers or a farm boy in a lone starfighter destroying the Death Star by trusting the force.

Maybe you can educate me as to how to make Leia and Luke? Maybe you can explain how the system emulates various iconic action scenes of daring do in the movie trilogy? Because to me it does not look designed to do any of that. Edge of Empire looks to me designed to make characters starting a career path as bounty hunter, smuggler, colonist, explorer, hired gun or technician with the Star Wars Universe being a background detail. Not designed to create the stuff of legends in a science fiction fantasy of heroes triumphing against insurmountable odds against an evil Empire. A tale of princesses, magic and monsters as much if not more than spaceships, blasters and droids.
Reading this, I can say with 100% certainty that you have not played the game yet. Leia is a Diplomat/Ambassador who picks up the Force Sensitive universal spec and then Commander/Figurehead as her third spec. Luke is an Explorer/Trader who picks up the Force Sensitive Spec, then Ace/Pilot spec and then ventures into the Force specs. And this all happens organically through the narrative. Like D&D’s multiclass except less gamey. Being that it’s a game that allows the players to contribute to the narrative and what happens in a scene, there are all kinds of ways to replicate the cinematic and heroics of the old movies. That’s what the Triumphs and Despairs are all about.

The biggest problem people admit to with this system is the narrative dice which literally just takes one session to get used to. The depth that they go into the skills for is because there is so much narrative freedom that they have to give players an idea of the scope of the skill. It’s not simple pass fail like D&D. I’ve introduced this game to a lot of people though local meetups and FLGSs. The first session is always the one that gets people hooked. It’s the same feeling when you go from a video game to D&D and realize how much freedom it is to be able to make whatever choice you want and affect the game world. FFG Narrative Dice System is the next evolution of that where you make choices and not only effect the game world but also take control of the shared narrative with the GM. It’s an improv player’s game. If you’re more wargamer than improv/RPer, this is probably not the game for you.
 

pemerton

Legend
If you’re more wargamer than improv/RPer, this is probably not the game for you.
There's absolutely nothing in @longisland's posts that make me feel that s/he is a wargamer. If anything quite the opposite - the complaints that you quoted in your post are of too much wargaming - especially in PC build elements - which gets in the way of play that might emulate the original Star Wars movies.
 

Doc_Klueless

Doors and Corners
It’s an improv player’s game. If you’re more wargamer than improv/RPer, this is probably not the game for you.
I improv about 90% of whatever game I'm playing/running by having only an outline of the adventure and then pulling weird crap out depending on how the dice go and player input. I go entire sessions just RPing with no combat.

I found I had a hard time "improv-ing" with the results of the FFG SW dice. Plus, try as they might, those books just don't read smoothly TO ME. I really have to concentrate to absorb them. So please, don't paint with the "Ur just 2 much of a WArgaMer, hur." brush.
 
WEG 1st edition. For the nostalgia, for the source books, for a lot of reasons. I detest specialty dice, so FFG is out anyway. I just grabbed a copy of a homebrew Star Wars character burner for Burning Wheel that seems very promising, but I haven't really gotten into enough to vote for it.
 

Longspeak

Explorer
If I had to pick a published SW franchise, it's be WEG. 1e for a pickup game, fast and easy. 2E R&E for something long term.

But... if I had my pick among the world, I hacked Over the Edge years back and that's always served me well. If i want more gamey, I hacked Dogs in the Vineyard - which doesn't need much - too. I've run both with success. The OTE hack would be my preference I think, for longer term play,
 

pemerton

Legend
If I had to pick a published SW franchise, it's be WEG. 1e for a pickup game, fast and easy. 2E R&E for something long term.

But... if I had my pick among the world, I hacked Over the Edge years back and that's always served me well. If i want more gamey, I hacked Dogs in the Vineyard - which doesn't need much - too. I've run both with success. The OTE hack would be my preference I think, for longer term play,
More info on both of these, please, especially OtE.
 

pemerton

Legend

Gradine

Final Form
For those who prefer 1st edition WEG versus later editions, has anyone houseruled any way to raise attribute points?
 

Longspeak

Explorer
I was interested in @Longspeak's OtE and DitV variants. Both those systems are more my style.
I'll see if I can dig up the old docs, but here's what I recall...

For Over the Edge, I just wanted fast and easy rules. Nothing fancy in the hack. I used the core trait system. with a few bits I borrows from WEG. I permit a PC to have a central trait which describes a Jedi or similar, or a side trait that describes more limited force sensitiviy. Or neither if they wanna play a non Jedi.

I then added a Trait for Species or Origin. Instead of dice, this gave three keywords, which could be invoked in play once per session each for a free bonus die. To invoke it, you have to be doing something in the narrative that supports it. Like a Wookie might be "Strong" so a player could invoke that when doing something physical, but not when repairing a jammed comm circuit.

I refused to make standardized lists; I asked players to tell me their inspirations.

Then everyone gets a Force Pool and a Dark Side Pool. These work very similar to the 1e WEG. Force Pool lets you call on inner reserves for nice bonuses, and refreshes conditionally. Dark Side accumulates when anyone does anything evil, or when a Force User does anything which can be construed as giving in to their emotions. OR for using the Dark Side Pool. Usually a player gets a warning for behavior, a chance to restate the action. But not when using Dark Side in the action.

Any character could use their Dark Side Pool to get free dice. Any time. As often as they like. Go on... use them... it's so easy...

Every time your character gets a Dark Side point invokes a scene where you might turn. When you do, suddenly I'm killing your PC's friends while you make a new character. (In WEG it's a die roll. In this it's drama). The more points you have, the harder it is to resist. At 6 points, the scene is a mere formality to see how you turn, not if.


In Dogs, I wanted to explore the relationship to the Force and the lure of the Dark Side, so I got a little more in depth.

First, the backgrounds in Dogs determines what assortment of dice you have for Attributes, Traits, and Relationships. To this I added that some backgrounds were "Force-Using" backgrounds, indicating a Force-Using character. They got fewer attributes, more traits, and a few more relationship dice, in general, that their non-Force Using counterparts.

I renamed the attributes (I'm not at home, so I don't recall the exact names), and gave slight redefinitions. Nothing major here.

Traits worked the same, save that a Force-Using background needed to have at least one "I use the Force to..." Trait. You wanna be a Jedi? Probably most of your Trait dice go to traits like this.

Relationships also worked the same, save that everybody had a 1d6 relationship to The Force. You could spend dice here to change that, but the default is always there. Anyone with a Force-Using background would always roll that trait in any conflict. Your relationship to the force is always at stake. Other characters could choose to roll it any time for the extra die.

Anytime a PCs relationship to the Force is at stake, your actions are under additional scrutiny. If you act with too much passion, or too evil, the Raise accrues immediate Fallout. I generally let a player know and give them a chance to redo. Players can also call it out if they see it.

If your Raise is called out as Dark, you immediately took fallout of two dice (of the same type as the current level of conflict). There's a separate table and there's no good result. The best result possible is "2-7: We'll let it slide... this time." Higher results would affect the number or type of dice in your Force Relationship, possibly damage other force traits (lowering die type or number of dice), add dice in a conflict the GM could use to complcate matters, and finally, potentially turn your character.

AND... that fallout total remains until to have a conflict to purge it. If you have further fallout, you add those dice to the previous total before consulting the table. You keep doing this until a successful conflict vs the generic obstable (4d6+4d10), but we also include all the Dark Fallout Rolls you've made since the last time you meditated.

This got complicated, but had some fun results.
 
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slipshot762

Villager
Are there any good hacks for D6 to make combat flow faster? The way attacking and dodging are separate actions feels like a bit of needless complexity.
Hello. I find that one answer here can be found in the D6 Fantasy/Adventure/Space books that came later; the die-code simplification chart in the back of these books allow you to roll either 5D plus a number based on actual skill code or even 1D plus a number if you prefer.

Another option is one defensive roll that stands for the entire round or encounter vs that type of attack (ranged, melee, thrown etc) only re-rolling when something changes like being injured or moving more than a half-move or so.

Yet another option from (I think) D6 masterbook is to allow a static number for defense/resist = to 3 points per die, so 5D dodge becomes a static 15 for example.

As to parts of the game I've felt needed reworked badly, one was force mechanics. I for example always ruled a force point doesn't double dice pools but gives you the max you could have rolled (except wild die, still roll that).

I also made force powers be skills under perception which require a force point to activate, and made force points work like mana, your max being equal to the number of force skill dice or perception dice for non-force sensitives, allowing them to partially regenerate (1 per die of perception) between encounters. (a pre-statted jedi's total number of control-sense-alter dice would be re-assigned to his force skills under perception as increases above baseline attribute)

I also tossed most force-power activation rolls, just spend the point to telekines the can of vienna sausage off the table and into your hand, we only need a skill roll if you are levitating an xwing or pushing darth vaders chest buttons.

The D6 Fantasy/Adventure/Space method of strength damage die code being half of the attribute, coupled with the "hard mode" version of damage resist from the same books is also advisable to avoid bulletproof or chainsaw wookie problem that can pop up under 2e reup rules as written. (hard mode is there is no resist roll beyond armor or shields, one can buy dice with character points or must spend force point to roll normal strength/physique/vitality/whatever.)

Beyond that I always made shields skill and dice function like a parry roll, making shields very valuable and making "their shields are down!" a very climactic moment. Thus shields stop attacks and bolster resist if a shot penetrates until they go down. Suddenly even 1D in shields is not so anemic.
ETA: against ions do the same but don't add shield dice to resist damage, they are only counted for the parry portion.

I would also recommend putting a "frigate" and "dreadnought" step in the scale system below and above capitol, as well as merging starfighter/walker into the same scale step, but that is just my own preference/bias.

ETA#2: Stun damage, rather than used as written I always had it function like normal damage but be non-lethal, stuns and wounds results are stuns essentially, incap or better is non-lethal knock-out/shutdown. Unless I misremember you can only suffer a number of stuns equal to strength before being knocked out anyway.

ETA#3: Somewhere out there on the net is the "dueling blades" chart from an article in D6 magazine or a D6 pirates game or something, I also highly recommend using that chart for melee/jedi, better cinematic feel imho.
 

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doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Honestly, next time I want a break from working on my own game, rather than homebrew more warlords or assassins or whatever, I think I’ll start working on a Saga.5e version of Saga Edition.

the conversions I’ve seen are too “5e with saga dressing” for me, and I’d rather see Saga with 5e improvements.

Insert BA, consolidate a lot of feats and talents, front load 1st level a bit more, decrease the endless prerequisites, and work out a chart for NPC numbers by CL. That’s...90% of what the system needs. The rest is tuning, “errata”, little bits of streamlining complexities that are needless vestiges of Revised Core Rules or overcorrections from them.

Class becomes nothing more than a starting package, at that point, which is how I want it.

Gah! Back burner! Too many pots, not enough spoons!
 

atanakar

Adventurer
After trying them all, I just bought the d6 WEG 30th edition reprint. I used to own it way back when. It's the edition I like best. SAGA is my prefered WoTC edition. Didn't like FFG's version. The icon dice ruin it for me and the background system interferes too much in the narrative for my taste.
 

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