What's your magic level preference?

[ConcreteBuddha]

I like any degree of magic as long as three requirements are met:


1) The amount of magic does not bog down the speed of play.
2) The amount of magic is plausable in the campaign world.
3) The game is significantly different (supernaturally) than the real world.


Explanation:

1) Oftentimes, "high magic" is equivalent to "everyone is buffed with about fifty different spells and five hundred different magic items and it takes each player about five minutes per turn or else one save or die spell will cause a TPW". This slows down gameplay, and the story suffers.

2) FR is a high magic world. It fits the "feel" of FR. (On the other hand, my friend has a low-magic homebrew campaign world, but he still allowed normal PHB spellcasters as PCs, with no alterations. Suspension of disbelief was broken.)

3) I like some form of magic (or the Force or psionics or channeling or what have you.) Any system that doesn't have any magic whatsoever is not significantly different than the real world, and I'd rather just go live my life than play the game.

 

[hong]

Why do you prefer what you chose? Do you like your characters loaded down with magic items, or do you prefer a few items that let your character stand out from all the magic? Do you like magic dominating high levels, or are heroic deeds your medicine of choice for what ails the fantasy world in which you adventure?

This is the most stupidly leading question I've seen for quite some time. Since when has the degree of heroism in a game had anything to do with the prevalence of magic?


Hong "still chaotic this week" Ooi

 

[Falcon]

I like any degree of magic as long as three requirements are met:


1) The amount of magic does not bog down the speed of play.
2) The amount of magic is plausable in the campaign world.
3) The game is significantly different (supernaturally) than the real world.


Explanation:

1) Oftentimes, "high magic" is equivalent to "everyone is buffed with about fifty different spells and five hundred different magic items and it takes each player about five minutes per turn or else one save or die spell will cause a TPW". This slows down gameplay, and the story suffers.

2) FR is a high magic world. It fits the "feel" of FR. (On the other hand, my friend has a low-magic homebrew campaign world, but he still allowed normal PHB spellcasters as PCs, with no alterations. Suspension of disbelief was broken.)

3) I like some form of magic (or the Force or psionics or channeling or what have you.) Any system that doesn't have any magic whatsoever is not significantly different than the real world, and I'd rather just go live my life than play the game.

I agree 1000%. Especially with Point #1. I have experienced a five round combat last over an hour because of this, which really gets tiring if you are playing anything but a spell-slinger.

As a player, I prefer to rely on my intrinsic abilities, my few personal items, and my colleagues, rather than X amount of magic goo-gahs/level. I get tired of playing Fighters who need a bazilion items to surviive beyond 10th level, and I am tired of seeing the mage or the cleric as the last one standing in difficult scenarios.

Basically, I generally see, as DM or player, spell-slingers taking care of themselves first before worrying about the rest of the party. And expecting non spell-slingers to care for them, coddle them, and get their brains beat out when it matters most.

This is why my campaign is d20 and no longer 3E.

 

[Celtavian]

Re

As a player, I prefer to rely on my intrinsic abilities, my few personal items, and my colleagues, rather than X amount of magic goo-gahs/level. I get tired of playing Fighters who need a bazilion items to surviive beyond 10th level, and I am tired of seeing the mage or the cleric as the last one standing in difficult scenarios.

Basically, I generally see, as DM or player, spell-slingers taking care of themselves first before worrying about the rest of the party. And expecting non spell-slingers to care for them, coddle them, and get their brains beat out when it matters most.

This has been my experience as well in most D&D campaigns. A fighter without some magical artifact level sword must get lucky just to live from encounter to encounter, while the wizard is a walking army. The warrior types are often just there to make sure no one hits the arcane and divine casters, and they hope with each battle that the cleric can keep them alive.

The main reason for this is not the power of the wizard or cleric, it is the power of the enemy. A leveled giant or a dragon are nightmares in melee combat. They tear through a warriors hit points like a hot knife through butter.

D&D really needs to add in damage avoidance beyond just A.C. to really allow fighter types some parity. At low levels they are able to hold their own, but at higher levels the monsters usually have much better stats (Even if you had all 18's), a higher base attack, natural armor, and can wear armor on top of all this. Not to mention, most monsters have special attacks such as Improved Grab, Swallow Whole, and other special attacks that allow them to literally destroy most melee fighters.

The life of a fighter is one nasty, bloody battle after another until eventual death or retirement for the lucky.

 

[Sixchan]

Well, it depends. I like traditional D&D to be High magic. As soon as I start adding Technology, I tone down Magic weapons and increase the cost of item creation. In a modern or industrial setting, I'd go with Blackshirt5 most of the time, although Very high magic campaigns in a Modern Setting (particularly if magic has been discovered or re-discovered causing modern magic wars) are fun. Sort of like the Industrial Revolution threads in reverse.

 

[Gothmog]

Both when I play and DM, I prefer a lower magic setting. In my experience over the last 20 years, players who have lots of magic available to them use it as a crutch, and won't explore more mundane possibilities for solving problems. Why try to come up with a clever ruse to infiltrate the thieves guild when you can simply charm the door guard to let you in? Where is the fun in blowing up the wicked lord with a fireball when you can make him think he is cursed by creatively using a few low-level spells? In general, I have found that high magic levels encourage the players to use it to solve every problem, while missing out on interesting role-playing possibilities.

I also have to chime in here and say I dislike how 3E has made it mandatory for character's to have much more magic to survive than the previous editions of D&D. A character is exceptional for his skills, NOT for the items he carries. And I don't know how many times I have seen characters that are built around a core magic item, but without it, they are pretty much bland, useless characters. Bleh.

As a question to anyone out there: can you think of any ways to make D&D less centered on the items of the characters, and more focused on their skills/abilities without making the magic-using characters over-powerful?

 

[Sanackranib]

magic level

i picked adverage. as the party advances in levels the spellcasters come into their own. but the magic level of the game should not get so high that nonspellcasters have to just sit back and watch. every player needs to be involved in the truely successfull game.

 

[kenjib]

As a question to anyone out there: can you think of any ways to make D&D less centered on the items of the characters, and more focused on their skills/abilities without making the magic-using characters over-powerful?

My idea, not tested in play yet:

- Give stat gains every other level instead of every four.

- Give a competence bonus to AC equal to half of BaB (round down, stacks with armor)

- Spell casters can only craft expendable items, like potions, scrolls, and wands. All other magic items are effectively considered artifacts and are extremely rare (can not be bought except in very exceptional circumstances).

- Weapons and armor do not have plus bonuses any more often then other powers. You might simply have a flaming longsword, or a ghost touch longsword, or an unbreakable longsword.

- All damage resistance based on plus bonuses can be penetrated by any magic weapon (thus DR +1/10 is the same as DR +4/10 -- both just require a magical weapon to penetrate)

I've compared the stats you get from using this method to the NPC sample character charts in the DMG and a character with these extra benefits is pretty close to one decked out with tons of magic items. The difference is that the ability is the character's and not dependent on his gear.

 

[Sixchan]

Both when I play and DM, I prefer a lower magic setting. In my experience over the last 20 years, players who have lots of magic available to them use it as a crutch, and won't explore more mundane possibilities for solving problems. Why try to come up with a clever ruse to infiltrate the thieves guild when you can simply charm the door guard to let you in? Where is the fun in blowing up the wicked lord with a fireball when you can make him think he is cursed by creatively using a few low-level spells? In general, I have found that high magic levels encourage the players to use it to solve every problem, while missing out on interesting role-playing possibilities.

You could play a combination of High and low magic campaigns in which low-level magic is very common. +1 and +2 longswords could be as common as dirt, but something like a flaming longsword unique. By high level, your characters could find a +3 rapier and still go "Ooh! Aah!"

In FR Mystra restricted access to 10th level spells and above, right? You could play an alternate FR where she resticted it to 3rd or 4th level. Or just make anything Higher extremely rare.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

I do alot of similar things to what Kenjib does in my low magic campaign:

1) All caracters recieve an insight bonus to AC equal to half their BAB.

2) Spell casters can only craft expendable magic items.

3) All characters can penetrate DR as if their weapons had a +1 enhancement per 4/ total character levels.

4) All characters gain 1 luck point every battle (or appropriate RPing scenario) and 1 luck point at the beginning and end of every session and 1 luck point every time you level up. Luck points can be used as a free action once per round to either reroll one dice roll or togain back a number of hp equal to the pc's total character level.

5) All characters recieve an insight bonus to saves equal to +1 every 4 levels (this helps fighters resist spells with insanely high DC's: a 20th level wizard can easily have a spell with a DC of 28).

6) All characters recieve SR at level 10 equal to their character level.

7) I also bar several spells that damage the feel of the setting.