What's your magic level preference?

[John Crichton]

I find it easier to run low magic so that's what most of my homebrews end up being. However, I am not opposed to high-magic if it is done with flare and care.

 

[hong]

Why try to come up with a clever ruse to infiltrate the thieves guild when you can simply charm the door guard to let you in?

Why charm the door guard to let you in when you can blast the door down with a lightning bolt?

Where is the fun in blowing up the wicked lord with a fireball when you can make him think he is cursed by creatively using a few low-level spells?

Three words: Massive Property Damage.

In general, I have found that high magic levels encourage the players to use it to solve every problem, while missing out on interesting role-playing possibilities.

Screw roleplaying, I'm here to kick butt and take names.

 

[hong]

In FR Mystra restricted access to 10th level spells and above, right?

Well, d00d, those 10th level spells Save Game and Restore Game just played havoc with continuity.

 

[Sixchan]

Well, d00d, those 10th level spells Save Game and Restore Game just played havoc with continuity.

I wonder when my group's wizard will try that on me.

 

[hong]

I'm thinking maybe you could just give every character a few Hero points (from 4CTF) every level, to use on a carefully-selected group of powers-- perhaps with those abilities determined by class-- and then simply tone down or completely eschew the use of magic items in the game. Of course, this would take a bit of power away from the spellcasters, since creating magical items is one of their better class abilities...

Get Magic of Rokugan, and read the chapter on nemuranai. Solves all these pesky problems to do with magic items breaking verisimilitude.

 

[el-remmen]

I don't understand why you have to give the characters anything extra when you run a low magic setting.

The truth is the balance of a game is in the hands of the GM and no rule set is ever going to give you a perfect sense of balance.

I have been running my low magic "Out of the Frying Pan" game for nearly two years, and I think it is finely balanced - the party is about to hit 7th level (or so) - and I am just careful about how I design encounters. . . I know what the book calls a CR 7 monster is going to wipe out a lot more than 20% of this party's resources - so I go for interesting and new encounters - combats that require some role-playing to "defeat" - and always instill the fear that not evrything in the world is designed for them to beat - run away or die is sometimes the only solution.

 

[hong]

I don't understand why you have to give the characters anything extra when you run a low magic setting.

The truth is the balance of a game is in the hands of the GM and no rule set is ever going to give you a perfect sense of balance.

No, but they can fake it pretty well.

I have been running my low magic "Out of the Frying Pan" game for nearly two years, and I think it is finely balanced - the party is about to hit 7th level (or so) - and I am just careful about how I design encounters. . .

Yeah, but I don't want to do work. I'm a lazy DM. I have a rulebook with CRs set out for me, so I might as well use that. Work is what I do 9-5 at the office, which is where I'm posting this right now. Whoops!

And 7th level is nothing. Wait until you hit 17th level and the wizard is flying around and blasting everything from behind wind wall and protection from arrows, while the fighter is being grabbed by monsters with +50 grapple checks (melee tanks got teh shaft in 3E, mang). Or the wizard dimension doors behind the locked portal, leaving the rogue behind. Or they send summoned monsters down the trapped corridor, setting off all the traps without any risk. In such situations, your opinion on balance might change. Heck, it might happen as soon as 10th-12th level -- beyond that, a "mundane" character _needs_ magic if they're not to get outshone by the spellcasters.


Hong "did I mention haste, harm, scry and teleport?" Ooi

 

[el-remmen]

I don't think you CAN make 3E into a low-magic game without SOME work - even the suggestions people have made here would have to be applied equally to all monsters and NPCs for it to be (fair) - that seems like more work for me.

As for higher level or game-breaking spells - in-game regulation of what spells are available and how easily gained (and strict use of material components) curbs such abuses.

The summoned monsters example was cool - I could just imagine the moral debate that would erupt at my table if someone suggested that (and someone would) - if summoned creatures are brought from somewhere else to serve you what right do you have to exert your will over them? Or, even if you could - Isn't unconscionable to knowingly cause a being pain and suffering? Etc. . Etc. . . Some compromise might reached, or a fight might break out, or someone might do it on the sly, but there would be a resolution and a fun time would be had by all. . . and I just might use that "moral dilemma" as a plot point further on down the line.

 

[Kilmore]

I'm all for kick ass magic and powerful items. Yeah, you can buy them in stores. ANYTHING can be bought and sold with the right money, there's just the question of legality. But I expect the other classes to hold their own at the same time, and that usually involves having access to magic items.

Another thing, yeah, my characters have good access to magic items, but magic is all around them, especially in the hands of their enemies.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

I don't understand why you have to give the characters anything extra when you run a low magic setting.

The truth is the balance of a game is in the hands of the GM and no rule set is ever going to give you a perfect sense of balance.

I have been running my low magic "Out of the Frying Pan" game for nearly two years, and I think it is finely balanced - the party is about to hit 7th level (or so) - and I am just careful about how I design encounters. . . I know what the book calls a CR 7 monster is going to wipe out a lot more than 20% of this party's resources - so I go for interesting and new encounters - combats that require some role-playing to "defeat" - and always instill the fear that not evrything in the world is designed for them to beat - run away or die is sometimes the only solution.

The fact is if you don't give the players some sort of bonus to off set the fact that there are no magic items you end up having fighters who have +9 to will saves versus a dominate monster spell with easily a DC of 26 with out magic items (10+9level+5Ability mod+2Spellfocus). Or two 20th fighters duking it out with +26 to attack and only a 21 AC.

Thats why you need to give pcs special bonuses when you have nearly zero magic items.