When to force initiative reroll?

[Liminal Syzygy]

Something that comes up from time to time in my campaign that I struggle with is when to stop combat, thus cutting off readied actions, and when to ask for an initiative reroll.

Specifically when my group is fighting incoporeal undead, earth elementals, or similar creatures who can retreat into the floor/walls and then emerge from other directions... and do this multiple times in battle. Sometimes it's difficult to adjudicate.

I don't think allowing everyone to get off their readied actions when such a creature re-emerges is a good solution. This is both because it obviates the tactic of retreating and reemerging AND because I find it hard to believe that the PCs could maintain awareness 360 degrees around them, particularly if the opponent can come from below or above as well.

Until now I have been asking for an initiative reroll each time, but that arguably isn't fair either as some of the PCs may be able to get off their actions, and specifically for a spectre or other creature with high initiative, it can make them much much tougher to beat.

Any thoughts?

 

[TheTaxMan]

YOu could re roll init as the monster comes into play, and if someone goes before the monster it can use a readied action. I played a game where we rolled init virtually every round and it worked fine.

 

[Camarath]

I allow my players to remain in Initiative as long as they wish even if there are no opponents remaining. If the players want their characters to stand around readying actions each round I see no reason not to let them. However, as long as they remain in Initiative I make them act in Initiative. My view is that combat does not end untill all combatants view it as ended.

 

[Kazuel]

I used to, and still prefer, to reroll inititive every round. The quick rogue who has a bad roll is going last every round (which isn't always bad mind you) but the speed of battle changes. It helps simulate multiple attacks without actualy giving a PC or NPC that bonus. It also keeps the players on their toes. In longer battles, a player might decide to hit creatures based on their inititve to take them out before their turn. See example A


EXAMPLE A

Here's the Turn Table

Fighter - PC
BugbearA - NPC
Wizard - PC
Cleric - PC
BugbearB - NPC
BugBearC - NPC

It's top of the order and it's the fighter's turn. He just finished killing one of the bugbears and sees that bugbearA is in melee combat with the wizard, and BugbearC is in melee with the cleric. Both the wizard and cleric are near death (1hp each, close enough for ya?) and they have horrible AC. The fighter knows that if either gets hit again, they are going down.

Now here is where the split happens.

[with continuous inititive]
The fighter knows that bugbearA goes right after him and then the wizard and the cleric will get to go before any other creature. So he decideds to help the wizard knowing that the cleric will get a chance to act before his attacker. The fighter kills the bugbear on the wizard and the cleric gets a chance to heal before he gets hit again. In the end the party wins, everyone lives, and in a small way, the whole RPing experience was soured. Now I'm not saying it was soured to the point it wasn't fun, because it was. However, the battle felt lacking.

or

[with new inititive rolls each round]
The fighter knows that both his friends are in trouble. Either could go down and he can only help one of them. He makes the decision to help the wizard knowing that maybe the cleric could heal himself or remove himself from combat on his own. In the end, the cleric was able to act fast enough and heal himself, the party won the fight and everyone lived. The battle was tense. There was a tough decision placed on the fighter and his companions lives were at stake. It was a much more fullfilling encounter.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I allow my players to remain in Initiative as long as they wish even if there are no opponents remaining. If the players want their characters to stand around readying actions each round I see no reason not to let them. However, as long as they remain in Initiative I make them act in Initiative. My view is that combat does not end untill all combatants view it as ended.

This is how I do it as well. The PCs are welcome to stand in a circle and wait for the shadows to return. Standing your ground is just a valid tactic as hit-and-run. But of course the party loses time waiting, which can at times be a disadvantage.

 

[Pax]

One way to limit things is, to base how large of an area they can watch for an extended time on either their Wisdom or their ranks of Concentration, whichever is higher (say, one 5x5x5 cube for every 3 or 4 points thereof). I'd only do this if they wanted to keep hyper-alert watch for extended periods of time. And, I'd require concentration checks if the periods of time extended to more than a few minutes -- say, 5 of them. One concentration check per quarter hour, starting highish and rising with each subsequent check (say, DC 15, +1 or +2 for each subsequent check).

Picture that being used for "dedicated overwatch" by a modern fireteam, over a two-hour period, rotating in a new soldier every 30 minutes at most. It's doable, it's feasible that highly-trained (read: level 5+, with good CON scores and/or ranks in concentration) soldiers could and would set up that way, BUT ... they wouldn't do that in the middle of an open plain, they'd find themselves a nice spot, with only one or two approaches that needed watching that closely (IOW, a small area for any one soldier to stay that hyper-aware of).

 

[John Crichton]

Back in 2e we (like everyone else) rerolled initiative every round.

Now, the only time I call for a reroll is if the battle conditions change considerably - a large group of new combatants enters the fray, the fight spills over to a new area, etc.

Occassionally, if the battle is starting to tire a bit or if the players are either too smug or getting creamed I'll call for new rolls just to shake things up a bit. This is rare. It adds more rolling which slows things down. I'm all for less rolling.

My answer would be roll less and see if that works. Maybe say every 5 rounds is when new init is rolled.

 

[Vaxalon]

I let the PC's stand around in combat time as long as they like.

Intelligent opponnents who are doing hit-and-run tactics won't attack enemies who are on their guard... that defeats the purpose of hit-and-run. Instead, they will either wait until the party's guard is down, or go get reinforcements for a full assault.

 

[swrushing]

If the incorporeal guys are gone for long enough that the characters have moved into doing other things, then its a new fght. If the incorporeal are out and back again quick enough that the pcs are still standing "ready" and have not moved onto other things, I would let the readied actions go.

One thing to remember, if the incorporeal guys don't have the bility to see thru stone or detect the characters when they cannot see them, then when they decide to come back into the room they are effectively entering blind... just as unaware of where the PCs are as the PCs are of where the specters will be coming from... so thats pretty much even footing.

 

[Diirk]

How do you handle things like delayed actions, full round spells etc if you reroll initiative every round?

Like.. the druid faces 2 low level mages and doesn't think he can channel a summon nature's ally if they magic missile him while he's casting.. so he delays initiative til after they've acted and starts to cast.

If he wins initiative the next round, then for all intents and purposes he cast it straight away...

On the other hand the druid might not have delayed and he might have rolled poorly the next round, meaning that while he was casting his 1 round spell, the opponents got 2 rounds worth of actions on him.

Both examples seem equally flawed to me.