Where do we stand on Harry Potter?

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Undrave

Legend
I don't know if that is the primary question before us. I expect the real questions are:

1) Can you talk about it without reminding the vulnerable among us that they are vulnerable, and one of the richest media personalities in the world is actively undermining their safety?
Answer: Probably not.

2) Can you remind them of this, and not have them feel like you don't care about their safety, and thereby make them feel even more unsafe?
Answer: Again, probably not.

3) Do you care about making these vulnerable people feel unsafe here?
Answer: Well?

In the end, the primary question is about how we treat each other: You've been told this is a problem for some people. Do you ignore that, or not?
As much as I enjoy roasting the Potterverse, I wouldn’t mind if bringing it up here was banned (at least as long as JKR is still alive, if ENWorld outlives her), because I value those vulnerable people you mention more than that roasting.

At the same time, there is some merit in discussing problematic creators, but I also recognize I’m speaking on the subject from a place of privilege and being basically unaffected by her campaign of hatred so it’s much easier for me to feel detached.

Huh, looking at everyone else's responses here, I appear to have been interneting wrong for some time. Sorry for the confusion!
It’s fine, we just rolled with it.
 

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Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero
I have a hypothesis, but it is completely unsubstantiated and I cannot defend it, just throwing it out there as one possibility.

Often, when criticized, we double-down on our original position, sometime being even more entrenched (it has something to do with the cognitive dissonance of 'No it's not possible I have been wrong all this time! It cannot be!')

Then on top of that, society is so often so polarized, so now that other group will welcome you to their side, now you feel this sense of belonging with these like-minded folks.

Thirdly, if you've been put up on a pedestal for so long, you can lose perspective.
I think you're probably spot-on with all of those, plus the fact that she's almost certainly surrounded by people who have figured out that they can become wealthy (but just ordinary person "wealthy") by never disagreeing with her or suggesting she's ever wrong about anything. That has a very corrosive effect over time.
 

Staffan

Legend
I know Tintin gets a bad rep because of Tintin in Congo and Tintin in America, and rightfully so (Especially 'Congo' considering the atrocities committed by the Belgians there), but Hergé did try to get better later on in life, doing extensive research into the real life regions he would send Tintin.
Tintin was published over the course of almost 50 years, so it would be strange if Hergé hadn't changed his mind to keep up with the times. The most direct comparison would probably be The Broken Ear, where the South American nation of San Theodoros apparently has multiple revolutions per day, and the revisit in Tintin and the Picaros which puts a far more realistic (and pessimistic) spin on the nation.
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
As a multiracial POC- with Jewish ancestors to boot- I would be disappointed if we simply banned or heavily restricted JKR/Potterverse discussions.

It’s not because I love either (I never engaged with them at all) or want to further victimize those she does. It’s because I find often find such discussions extremely informative and educational.

To clarify: I’ve been in this hobby since 1977. While I have encountered some face to face bigotry and discovered some written into the games, my personal experiences alone did not reveal the full breadth and depth of the problems in the various facets of the hobby. If it weren’t for discussions here on ENWorld, I wouldn’t be as cognizant of a lot of the true ugliness our hobby harbors, and thus, less able to make informed choices about what to patronize and what to avoid.

So my take on handling her and her output is the same for every other problematic writer, game designer or game: let’s talk about it, but with respect for our fellow ENWorlders in mind. If/when things go off the rails, report it to the moderators.
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
Yeah, just like R.E. Howard was moving in a more liberal political direction as he got older. Shame his life was cut short before he could complete that journey. And Lovecraft was so racist he ended up in bed for a fortnight when he found out he had Welsh ancestors. Lovecraft was so racist, he got racist about other white folk. That's...mental health, I think.
That would have been really interesting because Howard and Lovecraft were friends and frequent corresponds of each other. Heck, Howard's "Black Canaan" was so racist that it was pretty much banned in the the 70s from republication. Some scholars think Howard suffered from white guilt, being a southerner from the south and seeing how black people were treated, and thus wrote many of his black characters as sympathetic. I'm not a Howard scholar, so I don't know.
 



Reynard

Legend
3) Do you care about making these vulnerable people feel unsafe here?
Answer: Well?

In the end, the primary question is about how we treat each other: You've been told this is a problem for some people. Do you ignore that, or not?
This here is unnecessarily aggressive and makes some pretty bold and uncharitable assumptions. Since you are a mod there isn't much I can say about it. But I wanted you to know I noticed.
 

JAMUMU

actually dracula
This here is unnecessarily aggressive and makes some pretty bold and uncharitable assumptions. Since you are a mod there isn't much I can say about it. But I wanted you to know I noticed.
A trans girl was murdered here in the UK a day or two ago. JKRs twitter fans are currently telling her family it was a) her own fault for inviting attention and/or b) nothing to do with her being trans, just a normal everyday school feud, nothing to see here. Can we really talk about JKRs media without dealing with this spectre? The spectre she encourages and funds from the money she makes from the IP that we should be discussing with sober neutrality?

Honestly, no judgement. I am open to persuasion.
 

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