Where do we stand on Harry Potter?

[JAMUMU]

I didn't say one word about not holding Rowling or even the books up to critique. I said don’t treat each other poorly for loving something they grew up with. I am talking about people.

Oh yeah man, I wasn't getting at you you, just the idea of not shedding those things that turned out "bad weird", especially when the perpetrator of the weirdness was alive, kicking and an active locus of hateful forces.

 

[Undrave]

I grew up when Enid Blyton and Tin-Tin

I know Tintin gets a bad rep because of Tintin in Congo and Tintin in America, and rightfully so (Especially 'Congo' considering the atrocities committed by the Belgians there), but Hergé did try to get better later on in life, doing extensive research into the real life regions he would send Tintin.

He wasn’t always perfect but I think he tried to be better. JKR seems to actively get worst the more critique she receives.

Now, if you want to talk popular European things with questionable authors, look into Maya the Bee sometimes…

I don't know if this is particularly relevant to the questions posed in the opening post. There's no Potterverse RPG, so if we discuss it in the context of a TTRPG, Rowlings doens't profit.

Good point, I guess we might want to get ready in case one does pop up...

Wait …. Isn’t that just abra cadabra?

I know most of the spells are just lazy Latin, but c’mon.

That’s the level of BRILLIANT world building at play in this franchise.

 

[Umbran]

If we can talk about Cthulhu without calling each other racists, we can talk about the Potterverse with calling each other bigots.

I don't know if that is the primary question before us. I expect the real questions are:

1) Can you talk about it without reminding the vulnerable among us that they are vulnerable, and one of the richest media personalities in the world is actively undermining their safety?
Answer: Probably not.

2) Can you remind them of this, and not have them feel like you don't care about their safety, and thereby make them feel even more unsafe?
Answer: Again, probably not.

3) Do you care about making these vulnerable people feel unsafe here?
Answer: Well?

In the end, the primary question is about how we treat each other: You've been told this is a problem for some people. Do you ignore that, or not?

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

I have no idea what that means and how its relevant to me. It isn't clear from your post.

Yeah, Ralif types his responses above the quote, not below. So, the relevant statement from him to you is about how Rowling's goblins evoke anti-Semitic tropes.

Huh, looking at everyone else's responses here, I appear to have been interneting wrong for some time. Sorry for the confusion!

Ben Elton, left-wing firebrand comedian from the 80s (The Young Ones, Blackadder, Friday Night Live) and successful novelist.

Dang, he was only 23 when he wrote The Young Ones, and around 25 when he started writing for Blackadder.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

for many young people Potter not Tolkien was their introduction to fantasy. If anything, I think Potter's influence will be felt even more in the coming years.

Honestly, I think Minecraft's influence now dwarfs Harry Potter in terms of introducing kids to fantasy, including being even more mainstream, if such a thing can be imagined. (The original endgame of Minecraft is traveling to another plane to kill a dragon, for anyone who doubts its fantasy bonafides.)

I think Harry Potter has likely already peaked as a Millennial thing.

 

[JAMUMU]

I know Tintin gets a bad rep because of Tintin in Congo and Tintin in America, and rightfully so (Especially 'Congo' considering the atrocities committed by the Belgians there), but Hergé did try to get better later on in life, doing extensive research into the real life regions he would send Tintin.

He wasn’t always perfect but I think he tried to be better. JKR seems to actively get worst the more critique she receives.

Yeah, just like R.E. Howard was moving in a more liberal political direction as he got older. Shame his life was cut short before he could complete that journey. And Lovecraft was so racist he ended up in bed for a fortnight when he found out he had Welsh ancestors. Lovecraft was so racist, he got racist about other white folk. That's...mental health, I think.

Ultimately, it's an individual's decision to make. But as you say, there's an "activeness" about JKR that taints the well in a way that older material/older authors avoid, simply by virtue of the fact they've been dead for half a century.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I keep thinking about what happens to Harry Potter when the next Big Thing comes along for kids, the thing that captures their imagination and spreads across different mediums in the same way. Because that will happen one day. I don't think kids read Bomba the Jungle Boy that much these days.

It's Minecraft and it's already here.

How many elementary aged kids do you know that have that creeper hoodie? (The answer is almost all of them, at some point.) Even at its peak, Harry Potter was never quite so ubiquitous.

The current generation of doesn't have strong feelings about what their Hogwarts house is, but they definitely can tell you about Herobrine, an urban legend associated with Minecraft.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I don't think I can see Rowling's views as anything but pure and vile hate, but that's me. I agree JK don't deserve death threats, but I can't see how someone standing for a position that threatens the very existence of an already endangered group can come from a good place.

I was telling my wife earlier that I literally don't understand how and why Rowling spends her time the way she does.

If I was one of the richest people to ever exist, by year two, I would be out of ways to spend my money that weren't "well, I guess I'll make sure every child in my country is fed" or "what disease should I spend the rest of my life eradicating?" Instead, she spends her time gleefully attacking some of the most vulnerable people in society on social media.

It's completely baffling and horrifying.

 

[J.Quondam]

But as you say, there's an "activeness" about JKR that taints the well

She seems to take to the "wealthy double-down" approach to criticism: "I made lots of money, therefore I must be right... and the more you 'persecute' me, the righter I must be!"
Irritatingly, that sort of socially counter-productive thinking afflicts quite a few bazillionaires.

 

[Emoshin]

I was telling my wife earlier that I literally don't understand how and why Rowling spends her time the way she does.

If I was one of the richest people to ever exist, by year two, I would be out of ways to spend my money that weren't "well, I guess I'll make sure every child in my country is fed" or "what disease should I spend the rest of my life eradicating?" Instead, she spends her time gleefully attacking some of the most vulnerable people in society on social media.

It's completely baffling and horrifying.

I have a hypothesis, but it is completely unsubstantiated and I cannot defend it, just throwing it out there as one possibility.

Often, when criticized, we double-down on our original position, sometime being even more entrenched (it has something to do with the cognitive dissonance of 'No it's not possible I have been wrong all this time! It cannot be!')

Then on top of that, society is so often so polarized, so now that other group will welcome you to their side, now you feel this sense of belonging with these like-minded folks.

Thirdly, if you've been put up on a pedestal for so long, you can lose perspective.