Where do we stand on Harry Potter?

[doctorbadwolf]

I think any fantasy property should be open for discussion on these forums, as long as the discussion focusses on the property itself, and not their problematic author.

We discuss Call of Cthulhu here, and Lovecraft was a massive racist. We all acknowledge this, but focus on discussing roleplaying in a mythos setting, without supporting any of Lovecraft's repugnant ideas. I don't see why Harry Potter would be any different.

Lovecraft is dead. JKR is still kicking, still directly benefits. As well, when Lovecraft comes up, someone always mentions his racism. Likewise, it is beneficial to mention JKR’s transphobia.

Yes, its author is still alive and still very much trans phobic. But let’s focus on the art, not the author.

Enjoying Rowlings works is not an endorsement of her trans phobic ideas in my view.

It is in her view, and it is as a practical matter. She uses her wealth and celebrity to push for anti-trans legislation in the UK.

Just as it is fine to enjoy the works of Lovecraft and to listen to the music of Michael Jackson... even though they carted a giant painting out of his estate, that set off all kinds of creep alarms. Seperate the art from the artist.

No, thank you.

 

[Gradine]

It is in her view, and it is as a practical matter. She uses her wealth and celebrity to push for anti-trans legislation in the UK.

And honestly, not just in the UK anymore; a lot of her best friends and allies have been making the rounds stateside and a lot of transphobes know they can count on her support.

I’m been a fan of Eddie Izzard for the last 25 years having bought her first stand up show on video cassette. She’s about as politically astute as you can get and a pretty darn clever person. If she’s of the opinion that Rowling isn’t trans-phobic then I’m certainly not going to take a definite view to the contrary.

All due respect to Izzard (which is a lot, honestly), but there's a number of mitigating factors to that statement, including:
1) The wealthy tend to stick up for each other, regardless of any other issues
2) Joanne is notoriously litigious when it comes to people publicly calling her a transphobe.
3) Izzard last chimed in on this over a year ago, and needless to say some stuff has gone down in the interim
4) She was wrong then and she is wrong now.

JK Rowling is a transphobe. She actively spreads transphobic lies and propaganda, she supports anti-trans legislation, she signal-boosts anti-trans hate groups, and she will shill for any anti-feminist men's rights activist as long as they agree with her about trans people. The time for this debate has long since past. The only way you can credibly claim that she isn't transphobic is to deny the very existence of transphobia, which is what a lot anti-trans activists do, because they want you to see me and people like me as perverts and predators and not as people just trying to live our god-damned lives in peace.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Bolded this part for emphasis.

Many large properties, even those with a singularly identifiable originator (your Lucas, your Whedon, your Roddenberry) has expanded far beyond the bounds of that single individual's vision.

HP, on the other hand, is Rowling. Every piece of lore runs through her. Every product, every sale of every book, every movie, every dual-chromatic scarf, is a cut that lines her coffers. Every bit of money and influence that she is currently using to campaign to take away the rights of trans people.

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I cannot fathom being a beloved children's author and deciding "you know what, let's just see how much the public will take?" She, Elon Musk and certain suits at Hasbro seem to be drinking the same Kool-Aid in that regard.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

And honestly, not just in the UK anymore; a lot of her best friends and allies have been making the rounds stateside and a lot of transphobes know they can count on her support.

Yeah, she's held up as a justification that anti-trans views are "mainstream." She's providing cover for people actively seeking to harm a group that already has a huge risk of being murdered or killing themselves -- much, much higher than the general public's odds in both cases.

It's hard for me to imagine us trying to separate art from living artist if they were espousing similar views about other groups.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Last Saturday the 7 year old went to a classmates birthday party (transgender male), and when we got there, he was dressed as Harry Potter. Kinda broke my heart. I mean, you don't want to ruin a fandom for a 7 year old, but you know at some point they are going to have their heart broken after finding out what JK is all about.

 

[Bayushi_seikuro]

I won't bring it up, or normally engage in discussion about though this meta topic seems appropriate. However I will also not go looking for discussion about it so if people go off in a virtual corner - e.g. a dedicated thread - I won't barge in and threadcrap.

Separating the art from the artist is an interesting philosophical debate I wouldn't mind having in the abstract, but as she is actively making money from these there is no separation currently.

Abut the closest I get to that particular intellectual property right now was to be sorry when Robbie Coltrane passed last year, even though the only role I knew him was was his interpretation of Hagrid.

Side note: this will always be my favorite Robbie Coltrane role. Valentin Zukovsky

 

[Bayushi_seikuro]

You thought right. For me, it was the magic system; years of being a tabletop RPG player means that I can't help but dissect any new magic system I come across in fiction in terms of game-ification, since "if PCs could use this, how would they abuse it?" is, to me, the most stringent level of verisimilitude there is. And unsurprisingly, the Harry Potter magic system doesn't clear that bar.

I mean, if a "secret keeper" can prevent all outside knowledge and magical access to whatever secret is being kept, then why doesn't someone just make a secret about, oh I don't know, horcruxes? Or killing curses? Or freaking Death Eaters? "Hey Lucius, what's that organization we all used to belong to back in the day?" "No idea, MacNair. Someone's keeping it a secret."

Or that "taboo" casually introduced in the last book, which functions that whenever anyone anywhere says a particular word, it alerts the caster to their identity and location, casually shattering all concealment magic? Just make a taboo for the word "the" and you'll know where everyone is all the time! Are you really telling me no one thought of doing this in a way that would weed out potential Death Eaters?

Those are just off the top of my head. The entire damn thing ran on narrative fiat, and in that regard it sucked.

There's a great clip on Youtube of Brennan Lee Mulligan and Matt Mercer talking about the world building. Little things like why use owls if you can just teleport to people all the way up to the fact that the wizards have so much power to make the world a better place and actively choose not to. It also reminds me of Brennan's character Evan Kelmp calling out the Sorting Hat for what it is: tracking/ability sorting people into groups. As his character is told, it is Known and True that who you are at 11 is who you will be forever.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Side note: this will always be my favorite Robbie Coltrane role. Valentin Zukovsky

Minnie Driver is my favorite Bond Girl, just for how terribly she sings as that character.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

There's a great clip on Youtube of Brennan Lee Mulligan and Matt Mercer talking about the world building. Little things like why use owls if you can just teleport to people all the way up to the fact that the wizards have so much power to make the world a better place and actively choose not to. It also reminds me of Brennan's character Evan Kelmp calling out the Sorting Hat for what it is: tracking/ability sorting people into groups. As his character is told, it is Known and True that who you are at 11 is who you will be forever.

This world doesn't deserve Brennan Lee Mulligan.

 

[Gradine]

This world doesn't deserve Brennan Lee Mulligan.