Where's the American Fantasy RPG?

L. Frank Baum's Oz series established American Fantasy as a genre, and yet it hasn't had much influence on popular tabletop role-playing games despite several fantasy authors providing the inspiration for co-creator Gary Gygax's Dungeons & Dragons. Why not?

L. Frank Baum's Oz series established American Fantasy as a genre, and yet it hasn't had much influence on popular tabletop role-playing games despite several American fantasy authors providing the inspiration for co-creator Gary Gygax's Dungeons & Dragons. Why not?

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Picture courtesy of Pixabay.

American Fantasy Defined

As described in The Fantasy Tradition in American Literature, the tenets of American Fantasy include a contrast between real world struggles and a fantasy land (Kansas vs. Oz), the Garden of the World set in the midst of the Great American Desert (Oz), and pastoral qualities that encompass the heartland like corn fields, crows, wildcats, and field mice. Baum's Oz is different in character but similar in texture to American agrarianism.

There is technology too, always at the cusp of becoming ubiquitous, with objects taking on a life of their own. Baum was uneasy about the impact of technology on society: concerned about the impact of "flying machines", worried about what would happen to premature children in "incubators", and wary of slick-talking characters using gimmicks and puppetry (the titular Wizard of Oz). Judging by the abuse Baum heaps on an animated phonograph, he wasn't a fan of recorded music either.

As Brian Attebery puts it in The Fantasy Tradition:

"Oz is America made more fertile, more equitable, more companionable, and, because it is magic, more wonderful. What Dorothy finds beyond the Deadly Desert is another America with its potential fulfilled: its beasts speaking, its deserts blooming, and its people living in harmony."

Gygax and Dave Arneson were following a European tradition, itself descended from historical battles of interest in Chainmail, infused with their own American influences, such that little of Oz appears in D&D. At least not overtly.

Ozian Elements in Plain Sight

Jack Vance's influence on D&D is significant. From the "Vancian" spellcasting system to the Eye and Hand of Vecna, Vance's work permeates the game. Vance was a big fan of Baum's work and cited him as a major influence. One character recreates the Land of Oz in The Madman Theory (written by Vance under the pen name Ellery Queen), but Baum's influence goes beyond that work and appears in the Dying Earth series, as explained in Extant #13:

"...I speculated that the Phanfasms inspired the village of Somlod, as seen through the lost lenses of the demon Underheard (Cugel the Clever), and that Sirenese society, in The Moon Moth, was inspired by the Whimsies. Among the scarce commentators on Vance there seems little interest in the Baum influence, while influences which are minor or even nonexistent are often emphasized, such as Clark Ashton Smith."

Cugel, whose adventures take place in The Dying Earth setting, has more in common with the Wizard of Oz than Dorothy of course, and his adventures would go on to form the thief archetype in D&D, as per Gygax:

Of the other portions of the A/D&D game stemming from the writing of Jack Vance, the next most important one is the thief-class character. Using a blend of “Cugel the Clever” and Roger Zelazny’s “Shadowjack” for a benchmark, this archetype character class became what it was in original AD&D.

The Dying Earth wasn't a fantasy world, but a post-apocalyptic one set long after technology had fallen into decay. And that's a hint of where we can find Oz's influence.

Talking Animals, Weird Technology, and Untold Wonders

D&D has strayed from its cross-dimensional sci-fi roots, but one game has never wavered from its focus on a post-apocalyptic world filled with strange beasts, ancient technology, and hidden secrets: Gamma World.

The parallels between Gamma World and Oz (where animals can talk, characters can play robots, and humans are relics of another world), as filtered through Vance, finally gives Baum his due. If Baum was so influential on Vance, why hasn't there been more discussion of the parallels? The editor of Extant #13 explains:

"Given Vance’s own repeated and enthusiastic declarations regarding Baum, as well as the obvious parallels between Vance’s favorite Oz book (The Emerald City of Oz) and several of his own stories, I cannot rid myself of the suspicion that this lack of interest suggests an enthusiasm about certain subject matters and styles rather than an interest in Vance as such. I also suspect the Baum influence lacks appeal because he seems old fashioned, quaint and childish. The fashionable taint of the weird is absent."

This may be why Gamma World has struggled to find its audience like D&D has. Where D&D's tropes are so embedded in pop culture to be ubiquitous these days, Gamma World—like Oz—has alternately been treated as ludicrous, deadly serious, or just plain wacky ... the same criticisms leveled at Baum.

It seems we already have our American Fantasy RPG, it’s just a little “weirder” than we expected.
 

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Michael Tresca

Michael Tresca


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Cadence

Legend
Supporter
Besides superheroes, did the Wild West and Dectective/Crime Noir/Police fiction take up a bunch of the space that fantasy might have gotten in American popular culture? It feels like they dominated the air waves with the radio programs, and then jumped over to TV? Why did Boot Hill and Gangbusters never catch on?
 

Here is a sample of popular speculative-fantasy-scifi shows during the 2010s decade.

Shows I am familiar with:

Sense8
Killjoys
Legion
Humans
DC Legends of Tomorrow
Shadowhunters
The Magicians
Doctor Who (favorite Smith)
Travelers
Doom Patrol
Orphan Black
Flash
The Tomorrow People
Altered Carbon
Teen Wolf
Limitless
Now Apocalypse
Supernatural
Future Man
Being Human
Arrow
Incorporated
Titans
Kyle XY
The Adventures of Merlin
Dirk Gentlys Holistic Detective Agency
Cloak and Dagger
Runaways
Misfits
The Boys
Beyond
Los Spookys
Batwoman
Midnight Texas
Agents of Shield
The Expanse
Twilight Zone
Krypton
Black Lightning
Star Trek: Discovery
The Orville
Alphas
Heroes / Heroes Reborn
Watchmen
Stranger Things
True Blood
Constantine
The Expanse
Warehouse 13 (magic item of the week)
The Umbrella Academy
What We Do in the Shadows
Siren
The Order
Wu Assassins
Into the Badlands
Timeless
Continuum
Charmed
Cleverman
Chilling Adventures of Sabrina
Smallville (havent watched but know of, plan to watch)
Supergirl
Daredevil
Luke Cage
Iron Fist
Jessica Jones
Lucky Man
The Gifted
Witcher
His Dark Materials
Carnival Row
Stargate Universe
Agent Carter
Inhumans
The Rook
Black Mirror
Eureka
Gotham
Star-Crossed
Once Upon a Time
Tell Me a Story
Mandalorian
Scorpion

And others ...



2020s are starting well

Brave New World
Tales from the Loop
October Faction
Upload
Star Trek: Picard
Westworld (favorite series 2)
Avenue 5
Dracula 2020

And others ...
 
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Retreater

Legend
I think that a good deal of the fantasy that inspired the creation of D&D is rooted in lost empires, bygone ages, and history of medieval feudal societies. While the western hemisphere had those things, they are not our stories to tell (for most of us, I'm assuming).
 

Ace

Adventurer
Besides superheroes, did the Wild West and Dectective/Crime Noir/Police fiction take up a bunch of the space that fantasy might have gotten in American popular culture? It feels like they dominated the air waves with the radio programs, and then jumped over to TV? Why did Boot Hill and Gangbusters never catch on?

Too much learning curve especially for teenage boys who made up huge chunks of the gamers at the time.

When I was young lad back in the day I was the only person who knew anything about the prohibition era or who had ever seen a Western even though I lived in that region and I didn't know enough to run a game at all as the flavor, language of the time, customs, dress styles and such were too hard to communicate. So we passed,.

This never changed and though I've seen a Western game or two run (Wild West RPG for a session and a short GURPS game) it never caught on with the players the way D&D does.,

Buy in is a critical part of gaming and most gamers know "D&D" "generic fantasy" and :"whatever current" pretty well . They may have a preference or two but odds they've never bothered with the Appendix N of you favorite game. I've read the entire Appendix N for Blue Rose and all but The Broken Sword for D&D (I did finally get a copy so soon) but I kow few gamers who read a lot or have read that much.

There was a time in which World of Darkness was huge but that is gone. That Goth touchstones are npo longer common and the chance of finding a gamer whose read say Chelsea Yarborough or Anne Rice is slight.

.SNIP unintended bash of my hobby

Virtually no one read history for fun in my circles (decades of gaming here) even when they had time and so the chance of a group being fully bought in to anything is slight.
 
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Ace

Adventurer
Here is a sample of popular speculative-fantasy-scifi shows during the 2010s decade.

Shows I am familiar with:

Sense8
Killjoys
Legion
Brave New World (2020 but awesome)
Humans
DC Legends of Tomorrow
Shadowhunters
The Magicians
Doctor Who (favorite Smith)
Travelers
Orphan Black
Flash
The Tomorrow People
Altered Carbon
Limitless
October Faction
Upload
Now Apocalypse
Being Human
Arrow
Doom Patrol
Incorporated
Titans
Cloak and Dagger
The Boys
Beyond
Batwoman
Agents of Shield
Almost Human
The Expanse
Krypton
Black Lightning
Star Trek: Discovery
The Orville
Alphas
Heroes / Heroes Reborn
Stranger Things
Kyle XY
Teen Wolf
The Adventures of Merlin
True Blood
Constantine
The Expanse
Warehouse 13 (magic item of the week)
The Umbrella Academy
What We Do in the Shadows
Wu Assassins
Into the Badlands
Timeless
Continuum
Charmed
Cleverman
Chilling Adventures of Sabrina
Smallville (havent watched but know of, plan to watch)
Supergirl
Daredevil
Luke Cage
Iron Fist
Jessica Jones
Lucky Man
The Gifted
Witcher
His Dark Materials
Carnival Row
Stargate Universe
Agent Carter
Inhumans
Black Mirror
Eureka
Dracula 2020
Gotham
Star-Crossed
Once Upon a Time
Tell Me a Story
Mandalorian
Scorpion


... And others.

Great list here.

Problem is other than the Witcher and Mandalorian (which I don't watch) no one in our gaming group has any of these in common. This makes gaming buy in too expensive.Ultimately its basically comes back to D&D because we all know that.
 

Cadence

Legend
Supporter
Too much learning curve especially for teenage boys who made up huge chunks of the gamers at the time.

I felt odd asking about them because I've become a big fan of old-Time radio shows over the past decade or so - so lots of westerns and detective/crime-noir, and got my 10yo to watch Brisco County Jr. when I rewatched it last... but I've never really thought of getting a game in either genre going. I've done sci-fi and supers ones over the decades and don't particularly like them because the powers/computers feel like they make it too easy to short circuit a lot of plots. But late 1800s to mid-1900s don't have that problem. And I can see trying to nail a time period in the early to mid 1900s being hard, but old west doesn't feel much worse to me than the middle ages.
 

Ace

Adventurer
I felt odd asking about them because I've become a big fan of old-Time radio shows over the past decade or so - so lots of westerns and detective/crime-noir, and got my 10yo to watch Brisco County Jr. when I rewatched it last... but I've never really thought of getting a game in either genre going. I've done sci-fi and supers ones over the decades and don't particularly like them because the powers/computers feel like they make it too easy to short circuit a lot of plots. But late 1800s to mid-1900s don't have that problem. And I can see trying to nail a time period in the early to mid 1900s being hard, but old west doesn't feel much worse to me than the middle ages.

Good point .


Its telling though the game is very popular I don't know any tabletop gamers who play Red Dead Redemption but we all play Skyrim.

Its not difficult but it also isn't that interesting to most either. Why bother with sixguns and horses and dying of being gutshot when you have swords, cleric and such. Most gamers IMO like low to mid level D&D, easy to understand, tons to do and not as challenging as th ehigh level stuff which many DM's refuse to touch.
 

Great list here.

Problem is other than the Witcher and Mandalorian (which I don't watch) no one in our gaming group has any of these in common. This makes gaming buy in too expensive.Ultimately its basically comes back to D&D because we all know that.
Witcher is fun, and for a D&D fan is a mustwatch.

Mandalorian might be high concept art. He wears a mask, according to sacred custom. The entire series (almost) never sees his face and facial expressions. So the acting is strictly voice and body language, and the body language is minimalist. I enjoyed the show alot. I love telekinesis, so baby Yoda is always a joy.
 

Undrave

Legend
Great list here.

Problem is other than the Witcher and Mandalorian (which I don't watch) no one in our gaming group has any of these in common. This makes gaming buy in too expensive.Ultimately its basically comes back to D&D because we all know that.

Surprised no one's managed to make a Pokémon RPG a thing then :p

...But why aren't superhero games more popular then?
 

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