Which D&D "cow" is least sacred?

[Whitey]

Least sacred cow in D&D?

Orcus.

Just 'cause no one else has suggested it, 3/3.5 initiative. It penalizes or rewards a player over and over for the results of one roll, spread out over however many rounds of combat. Most other effects (poison onset, charm, some illusions) allow at least one other save during their duration, which then has class level or HD adjustment if it's Fort, Will, or whatever.

Is Improved Initative and/or Dex mod a Save vs. Going Last?
And in higher levels, is initiative itself a Save vs. Death? If whatever that hostile can do to you first kills you, that might be what it amounts to.

Delaying or readying actions doesn't always rectify this - just look at the number of rules threads there are about that here. Cyclical init is a boardgamey convention, one that cuts back on bookkeeping, but that doesn't allow PCs to do something clever that gets them an edge when responding to attacks. They can set up AoO, or run for it and hope for better init later, but if they can't they're pooched in a way no core class ability or item or spell can really fix.

 

[Nightfall]

Least sacred cow in D&D?

Orcus.

I'd have some witty comeback but since this is a PG 13 thread, I just say Orcus rules and isn't a COW!!

 

[Pants]

Just 'cause no one else has suggested it, 3/3.5 initiative. It penalizes or rewards a player over and over for the results of one roll, spread out over however many rounds of combat. Most other effects (poison onset, charm, some illusions) allow at least one other save during their duration, which then has class level or HD adjustment if it's Fort, Will, or whatever.
[/b]

That's why there's the optional rule in DMG for rerolling Initiative every round.

As for me, I think all of those options make DnD what it is. Abstract AC, HP, crazy wacky alignment, classes, and levels. DnD has become something more than just 'generic fantasy gameland' it has taken on its own flavor and style. It has become something new. If those strange eccentricities of the system are taken away, well then it just wouldn't be DnD anymore, just Fantasy d20. Then again, I'm not totally adverse to playing Fantasy d20, it could be great fun.

That said, there are no Tolkienian races anymore. The only connections the races have to Tolkien are names.

I'd have some witty comeback but since this is a PG 13 thread, I just say Orcus rules and isn't a COW!!

Yeah, he's a sheep.

 

[Nightfall]

Yeah, he's a sheep.

Again witty comeback but this is a Grandma Eric board.

 

[AFGNCAAP]

Other (actually, a category which sort of extends into other areas such as PC races): Synonym-monsters & sub-species/sub-races

Synonym-monsters: that is, creating a new monster basically after a synonym for an existing one. There are a fair number of these in D&D, and I wouldn't mind seeing the sheer # of these creatures being reduced.

And, sub-species/sub-races: the various different kinds of elves, dragons, fiends, etc.

As for the other sacred cows:

Vancian Magic: a lot of votes for this one, but as mentioned in the thread/poll on Vancian Magic, not enough agreement on what should replace it. Besides, the system is remarkably easy to learn & use (esp. for a new player), & that's got to account for something.

Tolkien-esque races: Some of trhis can be cleared up with eliminating synonym-monsters & sub-species. However, I like having elves, dwarves, orcs, ahlf-elves, half-orcs, & halflings in the game. I could see gnomes as either (1) a synonym or certain culture of dwarves (esp. since they're referred to being a sort of cousin species to dwarves), or (2) a term referring to a native being/elemental of the element of Earth (with sylphs for Air, salamanders for Fire, and undines for Water).

Alignment: I think that it should transform into something more like the Alliegiances system from d20 Modern; Alliegiance/Alignment restrictions should stay.

Armor Class: Honestly, it's a nice, relatively quick way to resolve combat, & it's now just a variant of the Difficulty Class system inherent to the new version of D&D which, IMHO, makes things a lot easier (now, across the board, higher = better).

Classes: I do think there could be fewer classes overall, but I do think that classes make things a bit easier for the players--it clearly defines what & how much of what a character starts off with & gains as he/she advances. I think that some of the core classes could be made into PrCs, while other core classes could be made a bit more malleable/customizable at the start.

Levels: Also a nice, set way to measure what improves (& by how much).

Hit Points: IMHO, it adds to the heroic feel of the game, & it's a relatively easy system to keep track of.

 

[Mercule]

DnD has become something more than just 'generic fantasy gameland' it has taken on its own flavor and style. It has become something new. If those strange eccentricities of the system are taken away, well then it just wouldn't be DnD anymore, just Fantasy d20. Then again, I'm not totally adverse to playing Fantasy d20, it could be great fun.

I think that, to an extent, you're correct. I never realized it, but D&D is it's own genre. This makes me sad, really, because what I want is d20 Fantasy. The core system is great, there's just a bit of baggage that comes with it.

I voted Vancian magic. I thought it was silly when I was ten. In the intervening twenty years, I've gone through my combat monster phase, my Real Roleplayer phase, I've been flirting (about as close as I could ever come) with gamist for about a year now, not to mention several other phases. My opinion of Vancian magic has gotten continually worse over the years. If I leave the D&D system behind me again, it will be because of the magic system -- I can't think of any other aspect that would bother me enough to bolt.

That said, I don't think much of alignments, either. I don't really consider them a sacred cow, though. Even in 1E, there were plenty of folks who ignored them. Today, they're all but hamburger.

 

[William Ronald]

I think the problem with having a D20 Fantasy is that it would directly compete with the parent product -- not a good proposition for WotC. I think a possible solution would be for WotC to have a "stripped down rules" option in a future edition.

The system, as it exists, is fairly flexible considering what many D20 publishers have created over the last few years.

 

[diaglo]

Again witty comeback but this is a Grandma Eric board.

sounds like someone's got your goat and Orcus' too.

 

[Kodam]

Hi!

I voted for alignments, too. Just leave it to angels, demons, modrons, etc.

Kodam

 

[Pants]

I think the problem with having a D20 Fantasy is that it would directly compete with the parent product -- not a good proposition for WotC. I think a possible solution would be for WotC to have a "stripped down rules" option in a future edition.

I think an ambitious 3rd party company could pull it off, but WotC might have a better chance, due to more money and a larger fanbase (whether earned or not). That said, I think it'd be a good 'alternate fantasy' system, maybe only 4 generic classes, lots of feat chains and special abilities that allow even more customization. I think it could be fun.