Which D20 Supers game do you have?

[FTracer]

I am in no means trying to blast your work nor trying to start a flame war, I'm just putting down what I think. To be fair I don't have a copy of 4CTF and based my opinions off of what little I've read and seen(2 mini previews and the EN reviews), and my opinion being somewhat flawed it seems.

Artwork: DNW has very little artwork in it but what it does I like. I'm not a huge anime fan other than the BattleChasers look. I don't base buying a book on it's artwork, it's actually a small factor but it's nice to have some you like. With pdf format you can always copy and paste your own.

Powers: From the posts I've read it seems people are having problems firguring out power levels for heroes...example: What level Thor, Superman, Batman, Spidy, etc. IF you bring in those types of characters at current power levels like the comics have currently, it sounds like they'd be very high level, 10-25. Hard to start off with a 1st level Superman or Thor. In DNW characters like Batman can be higher level than Superman since Superman has to pay a XP Tithe and it explains why Bats has the drop on him all the time. Saying 4CTF has unfinished powers doesn't really explain it, I should have expanded on it more. Granted I don't know how 4CTF deals with this, just based on what I've seen so far.

Classes: My mistake on this one, I thought there was two classes and you bought powers like feats and I knew there was 4 or 5? prestige classes to enhance them.

Well like I said, not trying to start a war, just supporting what I think is a fine product. I wouldn't mind getting 4CTF sometime just for the ease of ability to have superheroes drop in a fantasy game.

 

[NeuroZombie]

Originally posted by Morrus

What was it about the preview that you didn't like?

What I didn't like about 4CtF was the fact that you had to have higher-level characters to have more powers. It does not mimic the comics very well. There are many characters, the Kyle Rayner Green Lantern for instance, that has amazing power, but started with no experience.

I had created a Template method of doing supers, turned it to a 20 page pdf with art and everything, but ultimately never released it fr download because I felt the increased ECL of the template just didn't work for me.

DNW mimics this very well IMHO with the experience Tithe.

 

[Morrus]

Originally posted by Morrus


What I didn't like about 4CtF was the fact that you had to have higher-level characters to have more powers. It does not mimic the comics very well. There are many characters, the Kyle Rayner Green Lantern for instance, that has amazing power, but started with no experience.

I had created a Template method of doing supers, turned it to a 20 page pdf with art and everything, but ultimately never released it fr download because I felt the increased ECL of the template just didn't work for me.

DNW mimics this very well IMHO with the experience Tithe.

Your perception of 4C2F is wrong - that is only one of the ways you can run the game. A very major part of it is the template system (it does use ECL, as you mention, but only for the sole purpose of balancing encounters with D&D monsters); plus, as I mentioned above, yet another option is to just buy powers with XP.

It's a toolkit. Don't assume that it tells you how your game should be run. It gives lots of options, and you get to run the game how you like. I use the template system myself, as it fits in with my idea of comic book superheroes; I believe Rangerwickett is a fan of the level system.

 

[Morrus]

I am in no means trying to blast your work nor trying to start a flame war, I'm just putting down what I think. To be fair I don't have a copy of 4CTF and based my opinions off of what little I've read and seen(2 mini previews and the EN reviews), and my opinion being somewhat flawed it seems.

No, that's cool. I'm hardly the person to tell you your opinion is wrong! I just wanted to point out a few facts which, not having the book, you didn't know. I hate people labouring under incorrect information!

Powers: From the posts I've read it seems people are having problems firguring out power levels for heroes...example: What level Thor, Superman, Batman, Spidy, etc. IF you bring in those types of characters at current power levels like the comics have currently, it sounds like they'd be very high level, 10-25. Hard to start off with a 1st level Superman or Thor. In DNW characters like Batman can be higher level than Superman since Superman has to pay a XP Tithe and it explains why Bats has the drop on him all the time.

You can do that; a "Kryptonian" would be a template. Superman himself would probably be about 4th level with a very powerful template. Batman, on the other hand, would be around 20th level.

Anyway, I'll leave you alone now. If you ever do pick it up, I'll be glad to hear what you think.

 

[TheAndorian]

I have DNW and I recently ran a one-shot with it that went very well. It's an excellent D20 supers game, better in many ways then SAS. In SAS's defense, it was not originally a D20 game and such conversions are never perfect.

I'm very curious about M&M (Plain and Peanut!) and look forward to running an ongoing D20 Supers campaign in the near future.

The Andorian
Excelsior!

 

[RangerWickett]

Yes, as Russ pointed out, in FCTF, levels represent power, not necessarily experience. If you'd prefer to ignore the whole level-based thing, just choose the appropriate powers, and you're set. But, if you're the GM and you want to make sure you can challenge your party in a fight, having the levels there makes it much easier.

If you can look at, say, the Justice League, and say, "All these folks are of the same power as 20th level characters," then you can figure out that some Challenge Rating 20 monsters would make a nice fight for them. It's just a way to help you balance and manage combat encounters. For non-combat things, feel free to use your best guess in any system, but one of the great things about D20 is that the power levels have been clarified, making it much easier to run a tense, challenging game without killing off the PCs.

And as we know from comics, the PCs should almost never die.

 

[cybernetic]

Mutants and Masterminds looks good but isn't d20 and you don't get enough content for the price.

ummm...M&M IS d20....its just a unque/quicker version of d20

 

[novyet]

Well I just bought 4CtF just a couple days ago, and I think it's pretty sweet. It's integration into other d20 games makes it sound pretty good in my opinion. The ability to drop a character from 4CtF into a D&D game and have the characters of equivalent levels be pretty close to each other is a huge boon for me (when I DM) and my DM.

That said I'm very interested in Scott Lynch's Deeds not Words and it's expansion book. Mutants and Masterminds and Silver Age Sentinels never really grabbed me. I'll still give them a good once-over though.

 

[Desdichado]

None yet, although I (and some other players in my group) are excited about playing a d20 supers game in the near future. We want a print copy of something, though, since we'll be lugging it to other houses to play. I suspect Mutants and Masterminds will be what we settle on unless Green Ronin really drops the ball on it somehow (not something they've been known to do.)

 

[FTracer]

Well I'd say M&M is atleast d20 Lite since the only dice you need is a 20 sided and there's no hitpoints. Up until now Spycraft/Star Wars//Draonstar/yadda have all pretty much have been using the same mechanics.