Which is better: B5 or DS9...

[Ranger REG]

I think that's exactly the reason why DS9 outstripped the other Treks: the setting forced the writers to create ongoing conflicts--both in terms of the characters and the universe outside-- as opposed to zooming around galaxy in search of conflicts easily resolved in 52 minutes or half-baked scifi "ideas" {or worse, techobabble crises} that were obsolete by then end of TOS...

By making them stay put --excepting an occastional ass-kicking foray in the Defiant-- it placed the focus back onto good character development, good dialogue, and long-term problems that prompted character growth and change.

I do agree, and the DS9 production crew met the challenge and passed with flying colors, even this longtime Trek fan. But through the series run, a lot of other fans criticized DS9 for being too ... and I quote ... "soap operish." They don't even think that the show about a space station has nothing to do with Star Trek (some pointed to the title of the show, as "Trek" is defined to be a travel or a journey).

IMHO, they mastered the art of character and story development, which is lacking in later Trek series.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I read the book "Making of Deep Space Nine" from Judith and Garfield Reeves, and it was quite interesting.
It seems that especially Micheal Piller loved "personal" stories (if you want, call it soap opera) and focused on this when choosing from available scripts (or even initiating or writing some of them).
To me, it seems as if Piller wasn`t strongly involved in Startrek Voyager, because personal development fell quite short there...

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[Hand of Evil]

B5 all the way for me!

the Jack-the-Ripper episode was actually kind of cool, and while figuring him out wasn't that hard what was really cool (imo) was the why.

He had a gift that when unrealized and unused turned into a nightmare.

That episode made me realize how creepy the vorlons were.

It also showed just how bad the Vorlons were, I think it was this one that made me relate to them as Lawful. They knew what was best, they knew what was right, and long as you were sheep they were nice.

 

[Tempuswolf]

DS9 by leaps and bounds, even though I enjoyed both shows immensely. The choice between the two is easy because B5 dropped the ball. The resolution of the Shadow War...just sucked. I cried after the episode with Sheridan's "Just Go Away" speech. To resolve this epic Manichaean conflict with a bait and switch patriarchal "Father, now I am a Man" resolution just blew. I never watched the show as religiously as I had after that.

 

[Mallus]

Re: Re: Credit where credit's due...

You know, I must be one of the few who really liked all the seasons of B5. Even the Byron arc. Sure, the final season wasn't as good as previous ones but I still liked it. Even now, rewatching the final ep it brings a tear to my eye.

Its not that I disliked season 5 so much as it pained me that JMS had to compromise the way he intended to tell his story. I thought seasons 2 and 3 had excellent pacing. I loved the way the epic story was unfolding --even when I dilsked individual episodes. But season 4 was rushed, and when he actually got season 5 on air, I kept thinking --this isn't what he wanted. And that brought a tear to my eye....

 

[Mallus]

Cheese factor 7....

The choice between the two is easy because B5 dropped the ball. The resolution of the Shadow War...just sucked. I cried after the episode with Sheridan's "Just Go Away" speech. To resolve this epic Manichaean conflict with a bait and switch patriarchal "Father, now I am a Man" resolution just blew.

In theory I loved the end of the Shadow War... I love how no amount of tactics or technology are going to help win a war with God... However, shaming works nicely. And its so in the vein of traditional SF --like TOS-- the triumph of humanism and all.

But I agree that it mainly sucked to watch. Poor exection. Even so, I have to admire the intent. Here's a question. Do you rate something for what it reaches for, or what it actually grasps?

 

[JacktheRabbit]

When I first saw the episode I guessed the guy as Jack the Ripper the instant i saw him. No reason, just a stray comment but it was funny when it turned out to be true.

B5 all the way for me!

the Jack-the-Ripper episode was actually kind of cool, and while figuring him out wasn't that hard what was really cool (imo) was the why.

He had a gift that when unrealized and unused turned into a nightmare.

That episode made me realize how creepy the vorlons were.

 

[Crothian]

B5 was stronger from first episode to last, DS9 was way to hit and miss.

 

[Fade]

In the end their is no odd reincarnation thing going on. Just a trick played on humans and Mimbari by the Vorlons to keep the Mimbari from destroying humanity and to use both races to defeat the Shadows both in the past and the present.

I could be remembering incorrectly, but I thought that in the telemovie they said that they didn't beleive it at first, so they picked up some more pilots, who also appeared to have Minbaria souls.

Of course, they determined this using the Triluminary, which was a Vorlon artifact anyway. So it still could have been staged.

 

[Ranger REG]

I read the book "Making of Deep Space Nine" from Judith and Garfield Reeves, and it was quite interesting.
It seems that especially Micheal Piller loved "personal" stories (if you want, call it soap opera) and focused on this when choosing from available scripts (or even initiating or writing some of them).
To me, it seems as if Piller wasn`t strongly involved in Startrek Voyager, because personal development fell quite short there...

During the first three seasons, VOY was more like Jeri Taylor's creation (IIRC, the female member of the Taylor-Piller-Berman team). But you can see hint of Piller's work showing through.

As for falling short, that's what happened when Berman chose Brannon Braga and he in turn introduce a Borg Babe who became his girlfriend when Jeri Ryan later divorced. It went from "a pretty decent ensemble show" to the "Seven of Nine Show."

Since then, only a handful of episodes aired that I can be impressed with, such as the "The Blink of an Eye," "The Barge of Dead," and ... darn, what's the title of the episode where they came upon an old Earth spacecraft? Oh, well. As I said, only a handful from seasons 4 to 7.