Which PrCl would you never want in your game? (part 1 - DMG)

[DungeonMaster]

You have yet to make a reasoned argument in this thread.

From someone who repeatedly affirms he's getting a deal out of crafting 2 items at half-cost versus buying 1 this is most humourous. Or this one again:

Some prestige classes give more than they take.
*snip*
And taking mutiple PrCs usually doesn't end up with any more overall power than just taking one, or none.

You have a lot of problems with quantities it seems.

I already did that. Perhaps you didn't notice amidst all your whining.

No you didn't. You made the MT pay full price for items he can craft and then claimed you had some sort of advantage. Bizarre and contorted "logic" to say the least, put your money where your mouth is and do a full write up.

 

[Storm Raven]

From someone who repeatedly affirms he's getting a deal out of crafting 2 items at half-cost versus buying 1 this is worthless.

Well, given that I get items for half the price, and don't expend double the experience points, I'd say it's a pretty good deal. But you'd have to actually read the rules to understand how that works.

No you didn't. You made the MT pay full price for items he can craft and then claimed you had some sort of advantage. Bizarre and contorted "logic" to say the least, put your money where your mouth is and do a full write up.

Everyone paid full price for the items they had in the example, making everything equal. Perhaps you would have noticed that if you weren't so busy trying to figure out the rules.

But go ahead, build your MT character. Enjoy. I'll see what you come up with. Shall we set an experience point level for the characters rather than an experience level? If you are crafting items, it would make the comparison meaningful.

 

[Storm Raven]

You have a lot of problems with quantities it seems.

You have a lot of problems evaluating options, and understanding what an opportunity cost is.

 

[DungeonMaster]

Well, given that I get items for half the price, and don't expend double the experience points, I'd say it's a pretty good deal. But you'd have to actually read the rules to understand how that works.

Look, I don't know how to put this in politically correct language, but that's completely moronic? Do you realise what you write?
You need 2 articles of something. The other guy needs 1. You pay XP, any amount, and get 2 for the exact same price he gets 1 without XP expenditure. You're not "winning". At all.
I don't know how to word this any other way to drill this through a thick skull. It's very frustrating.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Look, I don't know how to put this in politically correct language, but that's completely moronic? Do you realise what you write?
You need 2 articles of something. The other guy needs 1. You pay XP, any amount, and get 2 for the exact same price he gets 1 without XP expenditure. You're not "winning". At all.
I don't know how to word this any other way to drill this through a thick skull. It's very frustrating.

The MT needs to buy some very expensive gear JUST TO KEEP UP.

Instead of buying the expensive gear just to keep up, another character buys the same amount of gear, and GETS AHEAD.

You say "I buy 3 ioun stones and boost my caster level by 3! Now I equal the wizard!"

The wizard says "I do too. Now I'm 3 ahead again!".

Understand?

 

[Tarrasque Wrangler]

I find the concept of blackguards quite lame. If their abilities are basically just going to be mirror images of the paladin which is a 20-level class, why not just make a 20-level class for blackguards? Of course, I also find it lame that they are just basically paladins with goatees and not much flavor of their own. I wish they'd just ditched the paladin entirely and made a "holy warrior" available to any alignment with some customizable abilities. Gee, I wonder why no one's thought of that...

 

[Particle_Man]

I find the concept of blackguards quite lame. If their abilities are basically just going to be mirror images of the paladin which is a 20-level class, why not just make a 20-level class for blackguards? Of course, I also find it lame that they are just basically paladins with goatees and not much flavor of their own.

Only one class gets the goatee. Only one class gets the flavour. Bow down before the Warlock, the King of Style!

 

[Storm Raven]

Look, I don't know how to put this in politically correct language, but that's completely moronic? Do you realise what you write?
You need 2 articles of something. The other guy needs 1. You pay XP, any amount, and get 2 for the exact same price he gets 1 without XP expenditure. You're not "winning". At all.

No one got a discount for crafting in my example, on either side. I could have saved money for both the MT and the wizard/cohort by having them craft items, but doing so works out to the disadvantage of the MT, since the wizard/cohort have, effectively, twice the XP pool to drasw from for their crafting endeavors.

In other words, I didn't use all of the advantages available to the wizard/cohort and still came out ahead in the transaction. You see, if we start crafting things, both sides can do that trick, so it comes out as a wash. Say you go ahead and craft your orange iouns stone, your lesser rod of metamagic, and your various defensive items (cloak, amulet, bracers and so on). You save money and spend experience points. Great. The wizard/cohort can do that too, saving the same percentage of money you did, and still spending their excess cash on a bunch of other stuff.

The MT needs expensive items to bring himself up to the casting ability of the wizard/cohort. Things like ioun stones, and metamagic rods. The wizard/cohort doesn't need to buy these items. They can buy other things, providing better defense, while still outclassing the MT in the spell casting dapeartment with their higher save DCs, higher caster level, and so on.

You need to go back and actually read the example. Everyone else who has read it understands it. You are the only one who is not getting it, and I think that is just because, at this point, you are willfully not understanding the rules.

So, are you going to stat out your "super-powered MT" any time soon? You said you would, and since then, I've seen nothing but a lot of bluster and ranting. I thought you were probably one of those guys who was all talk, but who would wilt when the time came to put his cards on the table. I see now that I seem to have been right.

 

[Kem]

Look, I don't know how to put this in politically correct language, but that's completely moronic? Do you realise what you write?
You need 2 articles of something. The other guy needs 1. You pay XP, any amount, and get 2 for the exact same price he gets 1 without XP expenditure. You're not "winning". At all.
I don't know how to word this any other way to drill this through a thick skull. It's very frustrating.

The Myth is DESIGNED for when they are the only caster so that the party has both a Cleric and a Wizard. In a party with a Wizard or a Cleric (Or Druid for that matter), the party would be BETTER OFF with a caster of the other type.

If you make a Myth, I am sure just about anyone who tries will make a BETTER Wizard, Cleric OR Druid. Keep in mind, you have to declare which spot in a 4 person party you want to be taking.

--------------------------------

Also the reason he could more easily spend EXP on items is that he gets 2 bonus feats towards that. The Myth doesn't.

 

[Storm Raven]

I'm still waiting to see what DungeonMaster produces. I think I'll probably be waiting a while. All talk and no action, that guy.