White Plume Mountain Revised is Up
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The alternative is that you just give the weapon "as is" (and so worth about 2,000 gp). Then, by the time the PC reaches 20th level, they have something worth 200,000 gp - and the other PCs have nothing. Oh, and that PC has also got another 198,000 gp worth of equipment that the PC wouldn't have otherwise.
At this point you have party tension and balance concerns. Not good.
If you don't like the penalties, I suggest you try the ongoing GP costs I give above.
Cheers!
Dave Turner
First Post
Wait, wait, wait. Blackrazor, when fully powered-up, is a +5 greatsword that bestows a -3 to your BAB? So there's only a net +2 to your attack bonus from the sword? Am I missing something or is that just loopy?
JimAde said:
What's most interesting about the mechanic is how adaptable it is.
Unearthed Arcana presents the "Legendary Weapons" (I think the rules originally came from the Game Mechanics). These are weapons that grow in power as you do. Unfortunately, they do it through implementation of a prestige class. If you don't take levels in that prestige class, you don't gain the weapon's powers.
Pity the poor Barbarian. To get the full benefit of the Dragonblade (a +5 dragonbane bastard sword with other abilites), they must take 10 levels of a prestige class that only gives bonus feats - and nothing that the Barbarian would want.
Because the weapon's abilities are linked to the levels of the PrC, you're effectively creating a prestige class, not a weapon.
In contrast, look at Blackrazor. The penalties are such that any PC could use it (although it's unsuited to most non-fighters).
Cheers!
Dave Turner said:
-3 to your attacks, not BAB. (It doesn't kill your extra iterative attacks).
Yes, the sword is effectively a +2 vicious greatsword with an additional +3 damage. (Meanwhile, the original Blackrazor was a +3 sword).
It seems loopy, but you've only paid about 60,000 gp for this weapon, instead of 200,000 gp.
(I'll note that -3 to attacks is a rather rare penalty to give a weapon of legacy, most top out at -2).
Cheers!
jester47
First Post
MerricB said:
I dunno, the way I play, something like Blackrazor would really mess up a character's life. Also, all of the party would not be the same level because when I character dies I am in favor of having the new character start at level 1.
I think my prob is that there is both unlock and sacrifice. I could see sacrifice or unlock by itself, but both just make it a pain to use. And even with the penalties and balancing mechanics you still have a big balance concern in the party. The character still has a sword worth 200,000 and his regular loot. I don't do balance and my players know this, and they also know that as attrition occurs the party will always be out of balance.
Balance is good, but in my opinion it is overbalancing.
JoeGKushner
Adventurer
MerricB said:
To be fair, the Game Mechanics do have another PDF, about various magical weapons, that offers some more PrCs for things like the monk, paladin, and barbarian. Still not as good as staying in your original class but waves better than slotting yourself into one of the "close" classes.
jester47 said:
Huh? What levels are you playing at?
I just finished the Necropolis campaign with the PCs at 15th level. Introducing a new PC at 1st level? It wouldn't work at all.
Is a +5 sword that gives a -3 penalty to hit still a +5 sword? It seems similiar to a +2 sword at this stage...
Cheers!
JoeGKushner said:
Indeed, but it's still "you must be a barbarian to take this weapon." Extremely restrictive. And for classes that give higher-level abilities... you give them all up. Forget other interesting prestige classes.
You define yourself *utterly* by the weapon.
Cheers!
jester47
First Post
MerricB said:
Thats assuming death is a rare thing in the campaign.
adv1: 4 PCs start at level 1. All survive. Ends with all at 3rd level.
adv2: 4 3rd level PCs, one dies, the rest level to 5, the replacement character because he is lower level gets tons more experience. He comes out level 3
adv3: 3 5th levels 1 3rd level. a 5th level dies, 5ths move on to 7th, 3rd moves to 6th, and new guy survives and levels up to 4th.
adv4: 2 7ths a 6th, and a 4th, one of the 7th dies, and the new 1st levels up to 5th.
The way the xp awards system works, lower level characters catch up faster. But if death is a rarity in your game this will not be fair nor will it work. But if for some reason everyone was 15th level and you had 1 1st level, your Average Party level would be about 12. CR 12 encounters will catch a 1st level up pretty quick. It works out. Trust me!
Yeah but its got lots of other special things that it does which catapults it past the +10 stage. Tis an artifact/relic thingy and thus a plot device rather than treasure IMO.
