White Plume Mountain Revised is Up

[Arnwyn]

I haven't perused the adventure yet, but I did appreciate the "designers' notes" on the website.

 

[sjmiller]

I was quite interested in seeing how they revised and updated this classic module. I was hoping they would do like they did with Tomb of Horrors and just convert it to the latest edition. Alas, this was not the case. I'm not terribly interested in buying a new book ($34.95 MSRP) just so I can run a free module.

I know, I know, gotta tease the customer-base with tidbits from their latest and greatest product. I know it is a method of getting people to buy the new book. Thing is, I don't want the new book, especially after seeing what is presented here.

I will have to see about finding my old copy and update the weapons myself, and see what else they might have changed/left out.

This is not nearly as exciting as Tomb of Horrors was for me.

 

[jester47]

Wow. I find that people are REALLY resistant to new ideas in RPGs.

Nope not resistant, I think it is just looking for simplicity and not over engineering things.

As for "the GM aught to balance it". Man, I'd hate to be customer service or anybody on a messageboard trying to help people after that. Alot of GMs, some not so new to the hobby, might not realize exactly how unbelievably overpowered they will make a single PC by handing him the sword "as-is". Even if the abilities pop up as time goes on, how does the party handle distribution of wealth?

The way this works is, you don't look at it as individual wealth, you look at it as party wealth, because when it comes down to it, those potion of healing and some of the cash move around the party with little resistance. So if you have a four person party of 7th level characters, and you distribute Blackrazor with a mind to the entire party wealth for what the sword is worth at 7th level. As the party gains levels, the total expected party wealth goes up and so does Blackrazors abilities. But probably not so much that the party does not get any treasure in the future. So Blackrazor's potential does not interfere with the party's or an individual's amassing of treasure.

"Bob has Blackrazor and although it's only a +2 Greatsword this level, Bob, you don't get any share of the loot because it's going to be really SWEET by level 20."

Or does Bob get a share and Blackrazor? Does every GM on the planet have to play the balancing game of making everybody feel special even when one character has effective loot twice that of everybody else in the party?

What are you talking about? Typically in my games loot is rarely divided equally unless it is cash. This is just the way players are. If the sword gains in power as the weilder does then the loot is not twice that of everyone in the party. Would you make the same argument if it was a +1 longsword that leveled up to a +2 when the weilder was 8th level? no. Its the same. At 7th level Blackrazor is a +2 with a mind shielding ability. That is well within the ballpark for that level character. I really don't know what you are argueing here. I think you are agreeing with me but don't know it.

Alot of us like balance.

Yes I like it too.

Personally, if a GM forced me to bring in a 1st level PC in a 12th level game ... I'd quit. Sure I might level up quickly, but god, what fun is it playing out half a dozen sessions one hit from death while I scurry from hiding place to hiding place "XP Draining" the party while adding absolutely nothing of any utility? While that might work for one GM with one group, if that were the RAW nobody would want to play the game.

Woah, wait a sec. In what I was talking about, there is no such thing as a 12th level game. You are corrupting an example I used to make a point that, given the way I play will probably never exist. The statistics don't work out like that. Additionally the 3.5 XP RAW do not allow for XP draining, they expressly prevent it. If you are a 5th level character in an encounter with a mummy, your xp total will be the same no matter who is in the party.

In a game where the dice fall as they may, from character generation to combat, character death is far more frequent and, dare I say, fun. Lets make the situation more realistic: If the party was a 2 2nd levels a 5th level and 6th level, would you feel the same way about bringing in a 1st level character? Especially if the encounters were mixed? Lets say 8 CR 1/2 creatures and a CR 5 creature as an example. Would that make you quit? Cause we have found it to be a lot more fun. Also in this structure, there is the idea that the party has leftover wealth of magic items that make the new lower level characters stonger and more capable than your typical counterpart. But this requires your gaming group to be generally cool and not contain any one who can't share.

I also like balanced translations. I played a translated 1st ed module that didn't take any balance into consideration. It just about destroyed the group. My character picked up a really expensive item, nobody else had one, one immature player just couldn't handle the disparity, the GM tried to make things right by adding loot for other characters. It was really hellish and just spiraled out of control. It was a really great GM, and a pretty good group. One odd-man-out, who could have skated by as a mild distraction RAW, just brought everything to a screeching halt. I'd have much much rather picked up a much smaller piece of treasure instead of a true translation heeling to the Everything Goes encounter style of older editions. "If you have a player smart enough to figure this out, his character gets to be as a god among mortals." type action.

--fje

Immature players ruining an adventure is not the fault of the writer of the adventure.

 

[jester47]

I was quite interested in seeing how they revised and updated this classic module. I was hoping they would do like they did with Tomb of Horrors and just convert it to the latest edition. Alas, this was not the case. I'm not terribly interested in buying a new book ($34.95 MSRP) just so I can run a free module.

I know, I know, gotta tease the customer-base with tidbits from their latest and greatest product. I know it is a method of getting people to buy the new book. Thing is, I don't want the new book, especially after seeing what is presented here.

I will have to see about finding my old copy and update the weapons myself, and see what else they might have changed/left out.

This is not nearly as exciting as Tomb of Horrors was for me.

They give you everything you need to use the weapons without WoL. They explain when the abilities come into effect, how much the rituals cost, what the rituals are, the abilities of the weapons. You can still play it and not ever have to crack WoL.