Who Else likes the Cantina?

[Mercule]

So it didn't matter to people that they looked different and had different bodies? I can wrap my head around not liking that even if I can't wrap my head around the idea of an alien mindset. Whenever I've been non-human it's been because the body is important to my image of the character and thus their identity, even though they're still a human in a suit.

I think that's the motivation for the dragonborn. My wife is beautiful and sweet, IRL, but she likes to play brutally disturbing characters. The eladrin doesn't really stand out, so I'm assuming he's in it for the teleport and INT bonus. One of the halflings plays identical to a human, though the other one does dig on being small. And, as I said, the warforged is constantly trying to head to the tavern -- he's also the healer and party face.

I don't have as much of an issue if the physically alien side of things is played up, rather than the psychologically alien. Even then, there's only so much alien you can play up when you're only one neon sign among many.

 

[Mercule]

I'm going to quote myself from the D&Disms thread.

Another thing: In AD&D, Elves (and Half-Orcs) could not be resurrected.

Yes. I spent a lot of time in my 1e/2e campaign figuring out what the implications were for elves being the only (major) races that had that limitation. Orcs, of course, were just too bestial. But elves, especially as I favored the eladrin-esque arcane archetype, had to have some other reason. Plus, they couldn't ever have psionics. If you looked past the raw mechanical side of that, there was a lot of rich potential for role-playing.

I once played an elven wizard after reading a nice write-up on elves. In 1e, they could not be resurrected but were on a reincarnation cycle, complete with just enough memories to confirm their rebirth. That gave them resistances to fear, etc.

So, my wizard.... I played him as pretty darn brave. Not foolhardy, desiring pain, or the like. Just unafraid of death. Once I got over the hump of being worried about playing my character, he kinda stood out from even the knee-deep-in-gore types. It wasn't huge, but it was enough to make him feel not human. It also gave him a strangely altruistic quality, even though he wasn't actually Good.

Then, we were gated to Hell. Well, Hell is the sort of place that removes a soul from the wheel of reincarnation. Even if you weren't supposed to go there, it's a bit sticky -- at least, that's how we played it. None of the other PCs had ever really spent much time thinking about their afterlife, beyond the normal idea that death sucks the fun out of life. But, my character realized that a) Hell changed the rules for him quite a bit and b) Hell would really suck for eternity. He became a complete cowardly baby who was only out for his own survival and at least open to throwing just about anyone under the bus to ensure it.

I'm pretty sure that was the character that made me a fan of both elves and racial alienism.

 

[Mercule]

Eberron doesn't have a Cantina thing going. It has the Casablanca. Race matters less then nationality - ok, you see an elf, a dwarf, and a half elf drinking together, big deal. But you see members from three different Houses - who are all human - drinking together, and that's a much bigger thing. Business Is Going Down.

Dang! That's a nice way to look at it. I'm going to have to play that up more in my Eberron game. First, I'm going to have to ditch the non-Eberron modules, though.

This is part of why I like Eberron, by the way: it's tailor-made for jaded B-movie "noir" protagonists, and those are fun to play. Cyberpunk settings like Shadowrun are similar: you're supposed to all be the jaded guy, so there's no conflict between the emulated genre and the game as it is played.

I hadn't really thought about it before, but the Shadowrun cantina has never bothered me in the least. In fact, it's one of the few settings in which I like magic mixed with tech. I chalk it up, in part, to all the meta-humans being branches of humanity. Still, there may be something to what you say about jaded PCs.

 

[Garthanos]

However, with no awe-struck (inexperienced) protagonists, the kind of stories we're trying to simulate don't quite come off right.

I just asserted in another thread the only place I had seen where you could play Frodo and Gandalf in the same party and have Frodo overshadowing him was using a game called Fate... fate has some hairy mechanical support for abilities which might sound meak or un powerful...but in D&D well .... think of it this way what if you skin things right? what if the bad guy missed the character because they didnt recognise them as a threat. What if its the bad guy got unlucky that hurt him not the hobbits knife attack.
I skin the toughness feat as god aweful lucky all the time.

When I built Frodo recently I used some things which I could represent as him inspiring others to protect him ... the 4e Warlord has some nice elements for that.

 

[Nifft]

I just asserted in another thread the only place I had seen where you could play Frodo and Gandalf in the same party and have Frodo overshadowing him was using a game called Fate... fate has some hairy mechanical support for abilities which might sound meak or un powerful...but in D&D well .... think of it this way what if you skin things right? what if the bad guy missed the character because they didnt recognise them as a threat. What if its the bad guy got unlucky that hurt him not the hobbits knife attack.
I skin the toughness feat as god aweful lucky all the time.

When I built Frodo recently I used some things which I could represent as him inspiring others to protect him ... the 4e Warlord has some nice elements for that.

Your idea has merit from a technical angle, but I just can't see myself (or anyone I play with) signing on to the implied flavor.

I'd rather play someone awesomely badass, who kicks your sword aside while spitting in your eye and propositioning your mother, rather than "ooo you missed me because I'm small and non-threatening!" -- identical mechanical effects, but not quite the same feel.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Rechan]

I'd rather play someone awesomely badass, who kicks your sword aside while spitting in your eye and propositioning your mother, rather than "ooo you missed me because I'm small and non-threatening!" -- identical mechanical effects, but not quite the same feel.

Bare in mind that Frodo was not a badass character. Therefore, the "missing" is in part of his character. He's seen as non-threatening because he IS.

In Fate, you literally can do better at things because you are a badass. Any time you do something badass, you tap the line on your character sheet that says "HEY I'M A BADASS" and you get a significant bonus to succeed. Of course, the GM can go 'ok. These guys? They want to take you down. BECAUSE you are a badass. So they're all coming after you."

 

[Garthanos]

Your idea has merit from a technical angle, but I just can't see myself (or anyone I play with) signing on to the implied flavor.

I'd rather play someone awesomely badass, who kicks your sword aside while spitting in your eye and propositioning your mother, rather than "ooo you missed me because I'm small and non-threatening!" -- identical mechanical effects, but not quite the same feel.

Cheers, -- N

Comedy relief becomes important after a while... We have opportunity to play and envison bad ass ... that is now a given... didnt used to
be but now that I can do that there is also other opportunity that has creaped into the picture.

"I close my eyes and hunch down even smaller after vaguely poking in the direction of the mace wielding orc (who the warlord has given me combat advantage against...) the orc spins around and smashes his own head with his mace... still uncertain of who it was he was responding to."

I find it can bring on some fun... especially in a group where everyone has
been gorging on badass.

 

[Garthanos]

Frodo wasnt himself comedy relief by a long shot... the original Frodo spent way too much time with very few surges (because he was spending them all resisting the ring of course.) my character doesnt have such a problem.

 

[Desdichado]

Interestingly, there's a coincidentally topical post on Scratch Factory about this topic.

Scratch Factory: Everybody Loves Orcs (Except Me)

Full disclosure; the Joshua mentioned in the post, and making the comments after the post is me.

 

[Garthanos]

Interestingly, there's a coincidentally topical post on Scratch Factory about this topic.

Scratch Factory: Everybody Loves Orcs (Except Me)

Full disclosure; the Joshua mentioned in the post, and making the comments after the post is me.

So I picked on an Orc sue me actually Tolkein has a scene where an orc mentions he'd rather be home right now... you have to figure longing for home and having a sense of family (that was revealed in another Orcish quote) kind of leaves orcs as complete monsters somewhere in a dung heap.. well Tolkein Orcs anyway.