D&D 5E Who is best in damage output Barbarians? Monks?

[Helldritch]

What if there are no mages to fight?

No problem, the monk will use speed and mobility to strike enemies without getting hit in return. Of course at low level it is a wee bit trickier. The monk shines when he gets mobility. For variant human it can be right off the bat. For other races, they have to wait until level four. It also depends on the monk's type. A way of the open hand will take the stun strike to lock down a melee type enemy. He could even stay close to archers (or any ranged type) forcing them to switch weapon. A four element monk can position itself almost always perfectly. A sun soul one will never need to get near problematic enemies as he can attack at range... a lit of possibilities, but the monk shines best on one to one. The brawler feat isn't something to sniff at in the hands of a monk.

 

[Helldritch]

In both my experience and white room analysis battlemaster fighter is well ahead of both barbarians and monks. And monks have an additional drawback - if they are avoiding damage via hit and run tactics they do nothing to mitigate the overall damage a party takes. It's a lot better if the enemy attacks you and misses (high AC) than them attacking a different party member.

Agreed on that. But I have groups of 6 players each. The hit and run tactic means that they don't take a lot of damage freeing healers for something else. In a four man party, the way of the open hand monk is better especialy with the brawler feat. But the monk will not beat a battle master on damage. That's for sure.

 

[Mort]

In both my experience and white room analysis battlemaster fighter is well ahead of both barbarians and monks. And monks have an additional drawback - if they are avoiding damage via hit and run tactics they do nothing to mitigate the overall damage a party takes. It's a lot better if the enemy attacks you and misses (high AC) than them attacking a different party member.

I tend to agree.

The big advantage of the battlemaster, is that he gets to declare use of a maneuver after knowing he has hit; which means the damage is never missed out on (for something like goading attack, even if the target makes its save, extra damage is still taken).

Also, the Battlemaster in my group has goading attack and the protection fighting style. He prevents a lot of damage the group would have otherwise taken.

 

[Mort]

As for which martial class has the best damage output? Both from a white room analysis and seeing them in play over multiple levels - paladins.

 

[Seramus]

Monks can rock a single target and make amazing duelists for one fight. But beyond that they tend to be a pretty anemic class. Even their mobility prevents the damage from being spread around and stresses the HD resources of everyone else.

I also dislike how dependant they are on Dex/Wis. It's not that you can't make monks using other stats, but there is huge incentive to be cookie cutter.

 

[Mistwell]

Monks suck. Of course it's not monks!

 

[doctorbadwolf]

With Magic initiate and Sentinel the number of attacks and damage grows.

Doesn't it pay off?

The Monk definitely benefits from anything that increases damage per attack, like say taking Magic Initiate for Hunter's Mark. Monk also multiclasses a bit easier than Barbarian, IME, with a wider range of classes. Even builds that would otherwise be dependent on multiple attributes, the Monk can benefit greatly from, like Paladin or Warlock (Hexblade).

A Hex-Monk can make 3-4 attacks per round at 1d6+Dex+Prof+1d6 at level 5, possibly also adding Cha mod if you take enough warlock levels, and has a bunch of stuff other than damage they can do when damage isn't the most important factor in a scene, whereas the Barbarian is mostly just damage and lifting heavy things.

Going back to single-class monks, again, you also have to take into account moblity, because both classes aren't traditionally known for ranged attacks. But, the Monk can be effective at long range, where the barbarian is gonna have a fairly middling, if not low, Dex. Meanwhile, a purely Melee Monk is going to have a much easier time getting to the enemy than the barbarian, who in some fights will be consigned to the boring fate of clean up crew, killing minions until or unless the party can get the enemy to where the barbarian can get to them.

OTOH, the barbarian has access to greatswords and polearms, and thus Great Weapon Master and Polearm Master. The Monk only has access to something similar if they are a ranged Kensei, and take Sharpshooter.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yeah right...

They're not wrong.

The Monk can't really be stopped from getting to their target, IME, without extreme measures that burn enemy resources, at which point the monk just kills some other target. But most of the time, the Monk, especially one with Mage Slayer, can get in, kill the enemy Mage, and get out. They might need a heal after, but not as often as they get out mostly unharmed due to their mobility and the fact that they are punching the most dangerous enemy in the face every time they try to zap someone, and have advantage on saves against spell from enemies within 5 feet, and Evasion.

I have done some one-shot gameplay with a longsword-weilding kensei monk with Magic Initiate, Mobile, and Mage Slayer, and it's brutal for the enemy mages.


I will say this, though. Just how brutal depends on the DM, and their ability to roll with improvisation, and stuff like climbing onto larger enemies, and the like.

 

[Mort]

Yeah right...

A monk willing to spend their Ki can easily shut down multiple opponents, certainly after 5th level.

Even against legendary resistance, monk is one of the few classes (I can think of) that can single handedly force multiple uses of it in a single attack sequence.

Stunning strike is very nasty.

 

[Undrave]

and have advantage on saves against spell from enemies within 5 feet, and Evasion.

I have done some one-shot gameplay with a longsword-weilding kensei monk with Magic Initiate, Mobile, and Mage Slayer, and it's brutal for the enemy mages.

The problem is Evasion comes online at 7th level, and your build includes THREE FEATS. That takes a LONG time to come togther AND you sacrifice at least 2 bumps to the stats that are responsible for your accuracy, your damage, your AC (because they decided the Monk should have crappy HP despite not being harder to hit than anybody else) and potentially your Stunning Strike Save DC.

And now you're a guy in cloth within striking distance of the rest of the enemy forces with your little dinky d8 and middling CON (because you realy need to pump DEX and WIS). It's not an ideal location.

A monk willing to spend their Ki can easily shut down multiple opponents, certainly after 5th level.

Even against legendary resistance, monk is one of the few classes (I can think of) that can single handedly force multiple uses of it in a single attack sequence.

Stunning strike is very nasty.

Spamming Stunning Strike on a legendary opponent is fine, but then you're basically out of ki until next rest.

The Monk CAN be good, it just takes WAY too much effort compared to a Barbarian to be just as effective, and in less generic situations. It looks simple on the surface but the ammount of system mastery and calculation of risk is just... just too much for what it accomplishes if you ask me.

And the idea of the Monk as the guy who 'locks down casters' just feels like an after-the-fact justification. A build the community came up with SPECIFICALLY to make the Monk look like a good, useful, class. Can it actually do something else well?