Who is better DAMAGE MACHINE a Fighter or a Barbarian or a Rogue?

[starwolf]

Suddenly, A Lightly armoured Fighter6/Barbarian5/Rogue3 with his Blind Kobold Cohort bursts upon the scene dual wielding +5 Flaming Swords and Sneak attacks the nasty Troll and quickly dispatches it.

"Sorry about that CtC, I really must apologize for lettin' that little beastie escape"

I in no way meant to get yer feathers ruffled. I enjoy doing the mechanic calculations too at times.

 

[Corwin the Confused]

Suddenly, A Lightly armoured Fighter6/Barbarian5/Rogue3 with his Blind Kobold Cohort bursts upon the scene dual wielding +5 Flaming Swords and Sneak attacks the nasty Troll and quickly dispatches it.

"Sorry about that CtC, I really must apologize for lettin' that little beastie escape"

Not a problem, I have a really high AC, stoneskin and blur, so I probably would not get hit before I used my helm of teleportation to get to less threatening area.

I in no way meant to get yer feathers ruffled. I enjoy doing the mechanic calculations too at times.

It seems that my feathers more easily ruffled than they should be. I'll try to work on it. I just get
annoyed when anyone tells someone how RPG's should be played. I think there is room for all in the RPG arena.

Corwin the Confused

 

[jontherev]

And people wonder why our group house ruled rogue's sneak attack (we say using sneak attack is an action)....

You could just use core rules if using the supplements bothers you. Notice, that I said these items were in Magic of Faerun.

 

[jontherev]

I ran min/max'd combat trials with a 13th level barbarian, rogue, fighter, ranger, and monk. But these were PvP matches instead of PvM matches so the results might not be what you were looking for.

Surprisingly by total ratio of wins/losses after each character had fought every other character twice, the order came out like this:

Fighter (flamberge, animated shield, critical focused)
Barbarian (great axe, animated shield, strength focused)
Rogue (twin finessed shortswords, ring of blink, AC/sneak attack focused)
Monk (sandals of tiger leap, flying kick, Spring Attack/Stunning fist focused)
Ranger (twin axes, mithral breast plate, strength focused)

The rogue really suffers in PvP because he literally just doesn't have the hit points. This was a min/max'd ring of blinking rogue who's every attack was a sneak attack and with two weapon fighting did an extreme amount of damage, but he doesn't have the AC or the Hit Points to take the retaliation long enough to down his foe.

The barbarian's main strength wasn't rage but hit points, but his lack of feats really hurt him.

Just curious if you took the ring of blinking into account. 50% of the monk/fighter/ranger's attack should be missing automatically.

 

[Jeremy]

Yup.

This was a very min/max'd combat though, so two combatants (the fighter and the monk) had advantages that made it only a 20% miss chance.

The problem was mainly hit points and attack bonus for the rogue. I still ruled that the rogue got sneak attacks on every attack for the blinks, but it cost him a 20% miss chance too.

 

[Belares]

Just my 2 coppers....

In my campaign it has been noted that the fighter(1st ranger/8th fighter) is great in combat, but even hasted (unless he crits) he still cant do the damage the rogue( 1st ranger/8th rogue) can dish out. Of course this means that the rogue uses his sneak attack whenever possible.

With that said though, if the rogue cannot sneak attack he is pretty weak, but your main focus is to get THAT sneak attack. If i play a rogue I get invised or items that allow me to do that. I wouldnt go toe to toe with something by no means unless I have flank with my friends.

 

[Darklone]

That's why I sent skeletons against my players before every player multiclassed into rogue after the first few fights against humanoids...

 

[Macbrea]

If that fighter wishes to increase his overall damage output he should take the following feats for those 10 levels.

1st - Power attack, expertise
2nd - Improved Trip
3rd - Exotic weapon heavy weapon Fullblade
4th - Weapon Focus heavy weapon Fullblade
6th - Weapon specialization heavy Fullblade, Dodge
8th - Improved Critical Heavy Fullblade
9th - Knockdown
10th - Power Critical Heavy FullBlade


This puts him at the Same

Fighter
BAB +10/+5
Flank +2
Str +4
WpnFocus +1
MW +1
For a total of +18/+13
Power Attack +4
Damage 4d6+12 (Avg 26) per hit

Critting for for 4x damage 10% of the time. And Guarrenteeing the first time they hit they do crit for 4x damage.


As you can see without adding in the Fighters Feats and just saying he has power attack you rob him. But once you say, "yah you can have feats and a nonmagical weapon of your choosing." Then he actually becomes deadly.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

This comparison forgets a lot of advantages of the Barbarian.

If the target happens to be a Barbarian with Blind Fight the Rogue is not going to get a single sneak attack off at all.

You can't flank 5+ level Barbarians.

Cleave is one of the best feats for the Barbarian and it does not apply for a one-on-one fight.

Listen and Wilderness Lore as class skills makes them less likely to be ambushed.

The easiest ways to nullify the Rogue are concealment, concealment, or concealment. A simple potion of Blur for 300 gp takes the sneak attack completely out of the combat. As a practical matter it is a near impossibillity to get more than 1 or 2 sneak attacks off against an intelligent high level opponent.