Who "Owns" Old PC's?

[Arnwyn]

I think the best thing about this whole thread is that with a quick read through and note taking, I have a nice list of ENworlders to never EVER do PBEM games with, work with on a d20 project or otherwise have any interactions with. It was great of the original poster to come up with a question that would bring all the major {individuals I would not personally or professionally get along with based on certain traits displayed on this thread} out of the woodwork at once...

Cool. I'd never keep a "list", as I'd only ever game with friends. And generally, *anything* coming from an "internet community" is suspect at the best of times...

 

[jgbrowning]

Originally posted by Kahuna Burger
there is a term for people who can't feel pain - lepers. I choose to respond within reasonable bounds to my environment.

Well. i'll try not to respond with your tone... ( i'll even refrain from comparing you to lepers )

I reasonably choose to take responsibility for my emotions reqardless of environment. And so do you, I'm sure. I doubt if you'd accept, "The guy sped up to cut me off in traffic and then he slowed down once he got infront of me, so I shot him" as an acceptable emotional response.

Perhaps it is just the acting on that emotion you'd disagree with in the above scenerio? The shooting is what you think is wrong in that situation as opposed to the emotion of anger? Well, what if the guy just fumed and fumed and ranted and raved for four hours? Would you think that was a "reasonable" response to being cut off in traffic? What if he only raved for two hour? One Hour? Thirty minutes? Ten minutes? Two minutes? One minute? One second? What if he didn't get angry at all? What's your reasonable emotional response here, and which of the above are unreasonable?

You do the same thing I do. It's only a matter of degree. And you seem to find your response reasonable, while mine is aparantly not.

I choose to respond within reasonable bounds to my environment. it makes being happy actually mean something

I take it from this statement that a "lack of emotional control" makes something mean more than something controled? A happiness that you supposedly didn't "create" is better than a happiness you did? Just because you control something doesn't mean it is "less real" or "less good" or "less pure" or "less deep" or "less worthwhile."

and here you might what to think about all the various forms of the word control. control just doesn't mean a "rigid grasp that chokes." I can mean the same type of control a gardner has over his garden, he choses what he lets naturally occur and what he doesn't want to naturally occur he removes. If it will make you feel better, just substitute "responsibility" for "control." The words may have different connotations, but my use of them is pretty much synonomous.

Could you please tell me where that "happiness" you were "given" comes from and how its materially different from that which im experiencing right now? I've done both and they feel rather similiar.

and being unhappy tells me I need to remove myself from a situation. I find it hard to believe that being emotionally divorced from the real world is significantly healthier than the physical analogue.

Of course when you use loaded language like "divorced" you might feel a bit worried. I guess if you were to just say "emotionally responsible" instead of "emotionally divorced" you'd agree with me.

Remember when you were little and you'd get angry and throw a fit? You don't do that anymore, do you? (I hope not ) I find it odd that when a person says they can basically control their emotions (don't misunderstand me here, i'm not in complete control and probably never will be.. but im trying to get better) your response is in lock-step with what you're saying.

Yep, you emotionally respond to my statement about controlling emotions. hehe I guess i'm on your list of "those you won't play with?"

In general, your response is typical, and one of the reasons why i dont talk about my philosopy and prefer to let people see me and see how i am instead. the show don't tell idea. people dont think i'm such a nut after they've known me for a while and see how happy i am, and how happy i've been for years now.

Most people have this idea that if you can somehow control your emotions your "bottling" them up, or your "repressing" them. Bah! What about the possiblity that i healthily deal with them? That i very quickly feel anger and then realize its silly to get pissed off at a guy who cut me off in trafic so i simply let the anger dissapate? (and that his occurs in under a second) You do the same thing you know, you don't feel angry forever at a guy who cut you off. I just try, with deliberate focus of will, to speed that "natural" process up, because emotions do come from within and i do utimately have control over them.

The main reason why i think people tend to react the way this post seems to be reacting to me (agressive, comparing me to lepers, implying im unhealthy, etc) is that the people who respond in that manner are simply doing to me what they think i've done to them. You seem to somehow feel like i've attacked you with my ideas. (as if what i say really means anything) As if somehow i've attacked you as a "lesser human" because you dont believe/think/feel the way i do.

Well thats one of things i don't like about putting self elsewhere besides self. It leads to emotional responses to ideas that appear threatening. But there's really no way for me to say "I'm happy and here's how I did it" without someone thinking i'm saying "Here how you can be happy and if your not happy its your fault. oh and by the way, your not a good as i am" because the people who think that when i say what i say, are ususally the people who think what they think i said against others so they think others think that against them.

This is why, i usually don't say anything. Its simpler. And it tends to put barriers up where i'd prefer there to be none. On this board, i've tried to become part of a community, but whenever i say something like i've said here (and in my previous posts), i always run the risk of separating myself (or having others separate me) from the community which i think i've helped be more friendly in my small way. Ideas like this are best discussed one on one, where small misunderstandings can be easily corrected almost instantaneously and where someone can get your "tone" with much more accuracy than through a text medium.



joe b.

 

[jdavis]

there is a term for people who can't feel pain - lepers. I choose to respond within reasonable bounds to my environment. it makes being happy actually mean something and being unhappy tells me I need to remove myself from a situation. I find it hard to believe that being emotionally divorced from the real world is significantly healthier than the physical analogue.

Kahuna Burger

sort of funny but that's not what I got at all from his post, I just figure he isn't a raving lunatic over uncontrolable situations. I think the only difference here is the definition of reasonable bounds.

Were way off in left field anyway, so I'll add to the topic of emotions a little. I am a very emotional person, I get very emotional about a lot of stuff. I will die from this, that is a fact, my family is susseptable to high blood pressure and heart disease, I am 33 and I have drastically high blood pressure, I will die from it, my emotions will kill me in the end and I will not live to be a old man. These are facts not assumptions. My Grandfather died of a heart attack 20 years ago, my Grandmother had a debilitating stroke nearly 10 years ago and is lingering in a state of constant medical care (she's in her mid 70's now), my mother fights blood pressure problems every day and has been told by a doctor to avoid all stressful situations, including her mother and other members of the family at holidays. I have been on blood pressure medication since my 20's and have shown no signs of ever getting it under control.

This isn't a silly topic, for me lack of emotional control will put me in a coffin, it is a fact. Emotionally dead or physically dead, what's the better choice? There are a lot of times when you just need to let it go, having a little control of your emotions will add years onto your life, take if from somebody who doesn't have the ability to let anything go and lives in a constant unescapable emotional whirlwind. By the way I'm actually a much happier guy than people think, it comes from accepting situations I can't control, now if only people would stop cutting me off in traffic............

 

[jgbrowning]

it comes from accepting situations I can't control, now if only people would stop cutting me off in traffic............

I found the only way to succesfully control my emotions is to surrender to my emotions. Once I did that, i started to see what they really are. Its just "me?" wanting to feel something. The emotions have no power over me except for what I give them. Thats what im talking about when i control emotions. its sorta like the fear litany in Dune, if you're familiar with it. Or like Labyrinth where the girl realises that David Bowie )) has no power over her except for what she gives him.

Or if you prefer more serious work. Thomas Covanant and Lord Foul. Like i said, my idea is far from new..

Once you learn to surrender, winning becomes inevitable.


joe b.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

What about people who can control how much pain they feel?

I don't believe you can. you can control how you respond to pain and how serious an effect it has on you. This difference is relevant to your comparison. If someone says "I control how I respond to pain and my stress level with it" I say cool, me too, wanna trade biofeedback tips. If that someone says "I control how much pain I feel" I wonder if we are having communication problems. If someone says "I take responsibility for any pain I feel and don't blame my environment for pain I experience" I become... concerned about that person and their ability to care for themselves. And if someone takes the next step and says "Everyone should take responsibility for the pain they feel - that person isn't hurting you, you are hurting yourself by taking pain from what he does" .... There is, in my humble opinion, a problem.

Brownings comments on good emotional response have fallen between the last two catagories in my assessment, and I chose to respond only to the personal implications rather than the more extreme possible social implications.

Kahuna Burger

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Well. i'll try not to respond with your tone... ( i'll even refrain from comparing you to lepers )

it is regretable that incorect assumptions about contagion led to the disease known as leprosy having such a strong social stigma. If I knew a less charged term, I would have used it, but then I would have had to do much more explaining about what I was making a comparison to. AFAIK, leprosy's primary effect is to deaden sensation in the extremities. Those aflicted then don't realize when they have been hurt and don't care for their wounds (I believe lack of surface circulation also effects healing.)

A close friend lost her grandfather in large part because of a similar situation caused by severe diabetes. He didn't feel pain in his leg and as a result did not know that an infection was spreading through it until his leg had to be removed. As a very old man, the shock of the operation was quite debilitating.

Its interesting to me that you catagorize my response as emotional. Perhaps you read a little to much into my words? Though accusations of emotionalism and by implicaton irrationality are a good way to dismiss an opposing point of veiw. Not a new way to me, but a good way.

Kahuna Burger

 

[Sixchan]

Perhaps we all have problems here. Too much emotion, too little, Antisocial Narcissistic Catatonic Sadisim (that's me, I've got it all), and probably everything else.

And remember those wise words that prove that all gamers are nuts:
"NO! Not Blackleaf! I'M GOING TO DIE!"

 

[barsoomcore]

Its interesting to me that you catagorize my response as emotional.

Well, I have to say I found it rather emotional as well. Perhaps you didn't intend it, but you started out with a veiled insult towards potentially everyone participating in this thread (except blackshirt5) and then, without offering any context, compared jgbrowning to a leper. I find it easy to interpret that as an emotional response.

In any event, it seems like you're talking about pain where he's talking about emotion. I don't think they have to be the same thing. Pain is an involuntary reaction to stimulus. Emotion is learned behaviour that can be controlled.

I note that despite the fact that he thought you were responding emotionally, he took the time to discuss your points and respond to them in detail. I note that you dismissed his points with

accusations of emotionalism and by implicaton irrationality are a good way to dismiss an opposing point of veiw. Not a new way to me, but a good way.

Indeed.

 

[shilsen]

I don't believe you can. you can control how you respond to pain and how serious an effect it has on you. This difference is relevant to your comparison. If someone says "I control how I respond to pain and my stress level with it" I say cool, me too, wanna trade biofeedback tips. If that someone says "I control how much pain I feel" I wonder if we are having communication problems. If someone says "I take responsibility for any pain I feel and don't blame my environment for pain I experience" I become... concerned about that person and their ability to care for themselves. And if someone takes the next step and says "Everyone should take responsibility for the pain they feel - that person isn't hurting you, you are hurting yourself by taking pain from what he does" .... There is, in my humble opinion, a problem.

Okay. I'd say I do control how much pain I feel (and so would anyone who knows me), but it's obvious you've got your mind made up about this, so it's not worth arguing about. So let's just agree to disagree here.

 

[jdavis]

I found the only way to succesfully control my emotions is to surrender to my emotions. Once I did that, i started to see what they really are. Its just "me?" wanting to feel something. The emotions have no power over me except for what I give them. Thats what im talking about when i control emotions. its sorta like the fear litany in Dune, if you're familiar with it. Or like Labyrinth where the girl realises that David Bowie )) has no power over her except for what she gives him.

Or if you prefer more serious work. Thomas Covanant and Lord Foul. Like i said, my idea is far from new..

Once you learn to surrender, winning becomes inevitable.


joe b.

I embraced my emotions a long time ago (I'm the most rage filled pacifist you'll ever meet.). I actually enjoy strong emotions, even bad ones, I try to never take anything personally as that just leads to more bad for me, but I always respond and let it out, and I normally fly way overboard while I'm about it. Anger and frustration are the ones that will get me, you know the old saying "got so mad that they only saw red" yea I've been there, it wasn't fun but it is a true saying. Of course I also find that I enjoy things more too, few people get emotional about a good sandwich or cry during action movies. My blood pressure gets to the point where I get dizzy and have to sit in dark rooms. I'm not going to change so I just ride it out. I'm sort of the opposite of what you are saying I embrace it and go with it, one big emotional rollercoaster, out of control but not taking it to heart.

I don't believe you can. you can control how you respond to pain and how serious an effect it has on you. This difference is relevant to your comparison. If someone says "I control how I respond to pain and my stress level with it" I say cool, me too, wanna trade biofeedback tips. If that someone says "I control how much pain I feel" I wonder if we are having communication problems. If someone says "I take responsibility for any pain I feel and don't blame my environment for pain I experience" I become... concerned about that person and their ability to care for themselves. And if someone takes the next step and says "Everyone should take responsibility for the pain they feel - that person isn't hurting you, you are hurting yourself by taking pain from what he does" .... There is, in my humble opinion, a problem.

I can control my pain and not feel it, it's not all that hard, it's called Tylenol, or Bayer , Advil, Anancin, Goody's headache powder, etc..... take your pick. Pain is a symptom of a problem, not feeling pain is not really a hard thing to do, now not having a broken leg is sort of hard to fix with a pill or force of will or such. Don't confuse pain with emotion, pain is just your body's way of saying "hey you big goof you got a broken leg stop walking on it." Now not blaming your enviroment for pain is also easy, would you blame the rock you tripped over when you fell and broke your leg? Do you blame the car door if you slam it on your hand? Anybody who blames their enviroment for the pain they are experiencing has a problem not the other way around.

accusations of emotionalism and by implicaton irrationality are a good way to dismiss an opposing point of veiw. Not a new way to me, but a good way.

The man writes some of the longest indepth responses I've ever seen, that was blowing you off as being emotional? His post was longer than all your post. I really don't think he dismissed your point of view at all, I think that you were misrepresenting his point of view. The man is willing and able (and apparently likes to) discuss these kind of things rationally and in depth, and you respond in a way that makes it seem that you didn't even read the whole post. Everybody is different and everybody believes different things, but if you don't have a open mind to other possibilities then you might as well be emotionally, mentally and socially stagnant. I actually don't agree with his thinking but I accept it, heck I applaud it. I think you are mistaken in whom it seems is dismissing the opposing point of view, jgbrowning seems more than willing to openly discuss it and has, you just shrugged it off.

I took the whole thing to mean that he doesn't let his emotions control his life, I could be wrong but I am pretty sure his point wasn't that he has turned himself into a lifeless animaton with no feeling or emotion, which is what you seem to be arguing against (I agree down with lifeless animatons). Do you really believe that people cannot control their emotions? Do you believe that people can't have a different perspective on what makes them happy or sad or angry, is the way you believe the only right way?