Why 4e doesn't bother me.

[Steely Dan]

I really like 2E (mostly because of setting material and CRPGs).

Yeah, 2nd Ed had had the best, most innovative campaign settings – Al-Qadim is the still greatest and most elegant D&D campaign setting to date, IMO.

 

[rounser]

Yeah, 2nd Ed had had the best, most innovative campaign settings – Al-Qadim is the still greatest and most elegant D&D campaign setting to date, IMO.

Kits were pretty good too, even if the implementation wasn't always so crash hot. I prefer them to prestige classes.

 

[Steely Dan]

Kits were pretty good too, even if the implementation wasn't always so crash hot.

Yeah, as you said, poor implementation - some of them were nice, but unfortunately, mechanically, some were amazing (swashbuckler, blade, blade dancer etc) and some were merely window dressing (noble, academician etc).

 

[Hussar]

Rounser - In no way an I trying to say this is universal. I'm explaining why the shift doesn't really bother me. I'm taking from this the idea that your gaming experiences will likely color your perception of the changes in 4e. If you didn't see a lot of the things I'm outlining, then the changes may seem more jarring. If you did include a lot of these elements, it might not.

For example:

It doesn't bother me because I'm staying with 3.5, and ignoring 4E.

And i don't think late 3E is like 4E. It has some similarities, and ToB was obviously the bud from which the powers system sprang, but none of the ToB characters I've played felt anything like a 4E character, and in 3E, I found many times (especially as a Warblade), I was often better off doing a "normal" attack on some rounds, such as a charge or trips, disarms, etc... In 4E, there's almost never a reason to choose a "basic attack" over one of your at will powers, unless you purposely picked at wills that weren't very good for your character.

StreamoftheSky's experience has been the opposite of mine. I look at our local warblade and I see that he almost never takes a simple attack. He almost always uses maneuvers. To show this, here's a selection from a fight from our last session. The PC's name is Thane, in case it's not clear.

** (204) Thane shifts **
(204) Thane: Attacks: Thane chomps! Bite ATK [1d20+5] => [19,5] = (24)for [1d6+2] => [2,2] = (4) Damage
, Thane (shifting) slices! Right Kukri ATK [1d20+13] => [18,13] = (31) for [1d4+5] => [4,5] = (9) Damage
, Thane (shifting) dices! Left Kukri ATK [1d20+13] => [2,13] = (15) for [1d4+5] => [4,5] = (9) Damage
, Thane (shifting) makes juliene fries! second Right Kukri ATK [1d20+8] => [5,8] = (13) for [1d4+5] => [2,5] = (7) Damage

(204) Thane: ((touch attacks, no damage))
***
** (209) Thane uses Death From Above DC 20 Jump check ((auto succeed)) **
(169) Scout: ((Er, balance check first if you're going to step on that part of the floor))
(209) Thane: [1d20+10] => [16,10] = (26)
(169) Scout: Thane easily keeps his poise.
(209) Thane: [1d20+14] => [1,14] = (15) for [1d4+5+4d6] => [1,5,1,3,3,6] = (19)
***
** (211) Thane moves up to the wounded scout and attacks **
(211) Thane: [1d20+14] => [17,14] = (31) for [1d4+6] => [1,6] = (7)
(180) Forgath: (( is this stuff flamable? ))
(211) Thane: crit check
(211) Thane: [1d20+14] => [7,14] = (21) for [1d4+6] => [3,6] = (9)
(169) Scout: light fort [1d100] => [36] = (36) low succeeds
***

So, out of 3 attacks, he used a normal attack once. This is pretty par for the course for the game. So, my experience with warblades has been pretty much the opposite of StreamofSky's. Which may go a long way towards explaining our respective attitudes towards 4e.

 

[Treebore]

4E doesn't bother me either. I'm not playing it. I am staying with the system that allows me to use every edition of D&D, including 4E, and take what I want from each, and have it work together as a cohesive whole that is totally tailored to my personal tastes.

4E will never give me that, 3E didn't either. Now I do have it. So 4E doesn't bother me because I have a game perfectly tailored to my tastes. Plus every book I own is a useful resource again. WOTC failed to do that for me.

Its awesome to look at every book I own from every edition of D&D and know I can pull it off the shelf and use any idea or rules mechanic I like in it in my game, that night.

 

[Rechan]

Hey Hussar. I hate to derail, but you are un-Private-Message-able or Email-able. Could you send me an email?

 

[Hussar]

4E doesn't bother me either. I'm not playing it. I am staying with the system that allows me to use every edition of D&D, including 4E, and take what I want from each, and have it work together as a cohesive whole that is totally tailored to my personal tastes.

4E will never give me that, 3E didn't either. Now I do have it. So 4E doesn't bother me because I have a game perfectly tailored to my tastes. Plus every book I own is a useful resource again. WOTC failed to do that for me.

Its awesome to look at every book I own from every edition of D&D and know I can pull it off the shelf and use any idea or rules mechanic I like in it in my game, that night.

*Hugs Treebore (in a macho, manlike sort of way. *

Y'know, I LOVE this attitude. Adore it to pieces. Evangelize your game all you like. If you have a game that suits your tastes, FANTASTIC. Let everyone know it. And, do so in a way that does not reference directly any other game! Again, FANTASTIC.

I'm a huge believer that you should play what you like. I know I'm getting branded as a 4e fanbois because I tend to defend 4e ideas. The ironic thing is, I'm not going to be playing 4e for some time. Going to run a 3e Adventure Path first.

But, I see so many people getting emotionally involved in trying to praise the "one true game" to the detriment of other games, that it raises my hackles.

See, this is why I don't have a huge problem with 4e fanbois. Or fanbois of any game really. Fanbois have better things to do than to trash other games. They're usually too busy praising the game they do play. It isn't until the haters start coming out of the woodwork that you see things turn nasty usually. Being positive all the time about a game doesn't bother me in the least. Being negative all the time about a game bugs me to no end.

 

[RFisher]

4e doesn’t bother me because, when I play it, I’ll accept it for what it is—just like I would any other game one of my friends brought to the table. Besides, with all the great systems that are out there, who knows when we’ll actually get around to trying it? There’s too much good gaming to be done to let a system bother you.

Heck, I figure it’ll be as much fun to make fun of as every other system we’ve played. (^_^)