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Why _DON'T_ You Buy Dragon Magazine?

Olive

Explorer
Teflon Billy said:
You cancelled (and refuse to reconsider cancelling) your subscription because they used naughty language?

How different is that from stopping buying a magazine cos it handled a setting (Dark Sun or Westeros) in a way you didn't approve of? I mean at least you're aware that it's petty, but still.

Erik Mona said:
It's not really my place to apologize for something I wasn't involved with in the first place, but I can assure you that I've no intention to print "dirty" words in the magazine during my tenure. I started reading Dragon when I was a wee lad, and see no reason to upset people with this kind of thing. Besides, there are plenty of game-related ways to upset the readers, so I don't really understand the point of gunning for controversy.

Since all the fiction we will be printing in the foreseeable future is tied to the Forgotten Realms or Eberron, the standards shown in those stories will match those of the books published under the same brands--which I'm going to assume means no potty mouth.

Sure, but if you got a chance to publish some genuinely good fiction, such as George R. R. Martin, would you refuse it because it contains perfectly standard adult language?
 

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Erik Mona

Adventurer
coyote6 said:
Martin's piece was far, far better than any of the FR fiction I've read. Much the same holds for the Fool Wolf stories (they weren't part of any game setting, IIRC). If the fiction's not going to be really good, I'd rather have more articles.

I sympathize with this position. I'm not certain that I share it, however. On the one hand, I would very much enjoy editing a magazine that periodically offered a vibrant, even cutting-edge fantasy yarn. In the 1970s, when Dragon was born, its editors went to lengths to discuss and (in some cases) introduce the audience to seminal fantasists like Fritz Leiber (especially), Robert E. Howard, H.P. Lovecraft, and Jack Vance. An issue of The Strategic Review (Dragon's older brother) included a short article on IOUN stones, with a note that their creator (Vance) had approved of their inclusion in the game. Early Dragons featured a short piece on Fafhrd and Grey Mouser's reaction to modern roleplaying gamers (hilarious, by Leiber himself), a lengthy, serialized piece by Harry O. Fischer on the development of Lankhmar, and of course Niall of the Far Travels, star of several fantasy adventure stories penned by Gardner Fox (creator of the Justice Society of America, among countless other classic works).

I would have been honored and humbled to work with the luminaries listed above, and will always respect the pioneers of this hobby (Gary Gygax, Tim Kask, etc.) for including the living fathers of fantasy and for basing so much of what is _still_ Dungeons & Dragons upon their visionary ideas. The "spirit" of these early stories matches closely my personal D&D campaigns. Mine is a Dungeons & Dragons of Conan and Cugel, of Lankhmar and Ascolais.

But the Dragon of Fox, Leiber, and Fischer came well before the publishers of Dungeons & Dragons began to create multi-novel lines of books aimed squarely at the interests of D&D's players, using the company's beloved campaign settings as backdrops. Wizards of the Coast publishes scores of fantasy books every year. Some of them reach the New York Times best-seller list. Many of them are branded "Dungeons & Dragons" and hew to the conventions of the game.

If Dragon is to have fiction at all, doesn't it make sense to tie that fiction to the fiction-publishing branch of the Dungeons & Dragons business? There are several other magazines on the market (none of which existed in 1976) poised to publish fantasy by up-and-coming or already popular fantasy authors. But none of those magazines can publish a short story set in Eberron. None of them can run a yarn based on the Red Wizards of Thay. But I can.

If I only publish three or four short stories a year, does it make sense to publish any that aren't in some way tied to Dungeons & Dragons?

Isn't Dragon the Dungeons & Dragons magazine?

Like I said, Dragon is a trickier trick than Dungeon. Not everything is so easy to figure out. I honestly haven't decided which way to go, and probably won't make a final decision right away. A part of me would love to publish innovative non-gaming fantasy. I tried to get China Mieville to send us a story when I met him a couple years back, and oh, boy would it excite me to give people like him an audience for their absolutely brilliant work. I just read "Black Brillion," by Matthew Hodges, and would love to work with him on something for the magazine, too. I'd adore editing that magazine.

But I'm not yet sure that that magazine is Dragon.

Honestly, I'm very divided about including fiction at all. It's very tempting to just write it off as "not Dragon's problem," leaving fiction to the fiction magazines. The feedback on this thread suggests that that would be the most popular thing to do. I may do it still.

But another part of me remembers the 7-year-old who pretty much discovered fantasy through the lens of Dungeons & Dragons. The first edition Dungeon Master's Guide features a reading list that points to Lovecraft, Moorcock, Vance, and Leiber, who still rank as some of my favorite fantasy authors.

I sometimes wonder if D&D, and hence Dragon magazine, has a sort of responsibility to keep the flame of fantasy fiction alive. That publishing short fantasy fiction in Dragon is a legacy. A responsibility, if you will. If something I put in a magazine can lead a young reader to discover fantasy fiction. . . I dunno. I get sappy sometimes. :)

In the immediate future, we've got two or three short stories on the docket. One is a really fun Forgotten Realms murder mystery featuring a couple of characters from "The Rite," by Richard Lee Byers. Another is our first Eberron short story, which ought to be interesting. Beyond that is undiscovered country.

I don't anticipate publishing swear words, either way. If some greatly respected author wants to drop the F-bomb, we'll see what happens. But most of the fiction authors I greatly respect are dead, so it's not likely. I'm not worried about it, and TheSigil shouldn't worry about it either. And neither should you. :)

No matter what happens, I don't want to do more than a few stories every year. The focus on the magazine is on the game, after all.

By the way, Coyote, I really appreciate the fact that you subscribe. Thanks for posting your feedback.

I also sympathize with those of you eager to see my response post. I wrote it today, in a fashion, in the form of the editorial for #328. I'll post it here in full, as it serves as a general summary of where I want to take things. But that's tomorrow. Tonight, I sleep.

--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon & Dungeon
 

Erik Mona

Adventurer
Olive said:
Sure, but if you got a chance to publish some genuinely good fiction, such as George R. R. Martin, would you refuse it because it contains perfectly standard adult language?

Some of you are about to slap your foreheads and really think I'm a fool for this, but I've never read _anything_ by George R.R. Martin, including the short piece he published in Dragon a few years back. I'm aware that this marks me as an ignoramus, and all I can say is that my current staff and the past four editors of Dragon already hold me in contempt for this fact, so the shame of all EN World is only adding insult to injury.

In any event, I'm told that Martin can get a bit "adult" at times, and that words like, oh, let's call it "Mr. F" (to honor Brigitte Nielsen) actually fit perfectly within the world he creates with his words.

Ok. I'll buy it. Martin gets to be crude because he is almost universally loved. Quite honestly, and I hate to be this crass myself, but I'd probably publish unfinished story fragments from George R.R. Martin, because the guy is so popular and Dragon could use the money. Let's not kid ourselves. The hoard isn't as big as it was in the 1980s, and our boy needs a little respect--in the form of gold pieces. It would be economically unwise to reject a George R.R. Martin story because it would turn off a handful of readers. I probably wouldn't do it.

I suppose it's possible that some gobsmackingly brilliant writer would send in a short story with a swear word in it. And then I'd have to think long and hard. But I'm frankly shocked it even happened once, and I don't anticipate it happening again. Until then, most of the authors we publish aren't going to go for vulgarity. I'm not worried about it, and TheSigil shouldn't worry about it either.

--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Still Not Sleeping
 

Greylock

First Post
I like your take on this, Erik, and appreciate as well as you the need for an outlet for good fantasy fiction outside the usual mags [which I don't buy].

I said it a page back, but was a'feared to go against the grain, but I will say it now, once more, but in plain view...

I like the fiction.

Every third or fourth issue is not exactly something that steals major page counts from the other content. Pretty much everyone agrees more fluff, less crunch, so what is fiction, other than well thought out fluff?
 

Sholari

First Post
Not exactly on topic... but since it seems, Erik, like you have been looking into some revenue generating ideas lately, here are a couple thoughts.

1) You might want to consider renting out your subscriber lists for Dungeon and Dragon magazine. (If the subscriber base is uncomfortable with that provide them with an opt-in option on their subscription card btw). You guys could probably get $50/M for the a single rental use and incrementally more depending on how frequently they use the list. That is for each advertiser that rents the list multiplied by however many times per year they might rent it. I can't think of a better way to target DMs with some new campaign world or product. The way you prevent unauthorized usage or someone from spamming the list is to is a trick known as list seeding. Basically, seed your list with several made-up names going to your own addresses. If one of those fake names shows up with a direct mail to your address that you did not authorize then you will know about it. A company called US Monitor provides this service for a relatively low cost. That way you could keep the list usage to only things that roleplayers would find very useful.

2) For your new catalog section it looks a bit cramped. You might want to use A/B testing to compare different formats and placements within the magazine and figure out what works the best. With A/B testing you create two versions of the magazine and then use offer codes that potential buyers can use to quickly pull up the product on your website. Not all print shops have this capability, however, there are definitely those that do.

3) If you get into a full-fledged catalog business, here is an article on how to do RFM analysis, which is used by a lot of catalog companies.

http://www.dbmarketing.com/articles/Art149.htm

Hope it helps.
 

RPG_Smithy

First Post
I would like to buy Dungeon (and maybe Dragon) but the main reason for me not to buy it is... I can not buy it here in switzerland.
I was searching for a while now but it seems as if there isn't one single shop that would sell it.

And as I do not own a credit-card,...
I can not buy it online!
Well, I have PayPal but I did not found an online store that ships to switzerland and let you pay with PayPal.
If you know one... send me the link! It would be highly appreciated!
 

ShorelisNailo

First Post
Dragon

For the fact G.Martin for me is just next to the Great Father J.R.R.Tolkien....
As for the dragon,living in a country like Greece is really difficult to find dragon regulary...
I like many parts from the few issues i've read but many times i find some broken rules :)
I just want to CONGRATULATE Erik for this thread and for his opinion for fiction books ....I really might be looking with a different eye the Dragon magazine from now on...
 

Don't worry about not having read Martin, Erik. I haven't either. I started the first book, got a few chapters in, and put it down. It's not that it was bad; it wasn't. Quite well written, in fact. It just wasn't what I was in the mood for at the time, and I haven't gotten back to it as of yet.

Also, I hadn't realized at the time that the series wasn't complete. I won't usually read books that are part of an ongoing series (assuming a single long-running story, as opposed to more episodic stuff) until the series is complete.
 

arche

First Post
If you're still interested in opinions, here's mine:

Why don't I buy Dragon? It's easy, I don't need it. I've only bought one magazine ever. I was tempted to buy one other, but held off. I just don't have the money to spend on a game accessory that I'm not even motivated to incorporate. I've got a player who subscribes and if he shows me something that's really good that he wants to incorporate for his character, then I'll look it over and possibly do it. That's happened once also. I know others find it a good resource, but when I got back into D&D with 3e after a few years off, I decided to not fall into every suppliment out there. It's costly and time consuming.

Now, I do subscribe to Dungeon. That's a magazine that's well worth the money as it has given ideas for adventures and simply got me through a bunch of tough DM times. I don't use ever issue, but I feel that it's my security blanket. I can't say the same for Dragon. Dragon is not for me and I can't justify subscribing to it/buying it to my wife :p.
 

Ghostwind

First Post
RPG_Smithy said:
Well, I have PayPal but I did not found an online store that ships to switzerland and let you pay with PayPal.
If you know one... send me the link! It would be highly appreciated!
Try FRP Games. I believe they can handle your needs and they do use Paypal. :)
 

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