D&D 5E Why are 5E Giants Huge size?

[dave2008]

I think the popularity of the Kobold Press monster books shows that there is likely a happy medium here.

Sure, but I have also heard complaints about the monsters being tougher than expected, So it is fine line. If I where to publish monsters that didn't follow the guidelines I would be very clear about it.

FYI, I have the book, but I have yet to use any monsters from it.

 

[dave2008]

@S'mon and @Upper_Krust , have either of you look at Sandy Peterson's Cthulhu Mythos (5e) ? They have some interesting ideas for epic monsters that I thought you might find interesting.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

I skimmed this thread so not sure if this was posted. 3.5ed. 5e also got rid of colossus size so that might be part of it:

 

[S'mon]

@S'mon and @Upper_Krust , have either of you look at Sandy Peterson's Cthulhu Mythos (5e) ? They have some interesting ideas for epic monsters that I thought you might find interesting.

Yeah, I own it - Peterson's Flying Polyp made a good CR 25+ opponent for a party of Epic+ (20-w-boons) PCs!

 

[jgsugden]

All we're doing is comparing apples to oranges when we talk about how suitable opponents are. I've been in 15th level parties that were very efficient and could take out CR 20+ monsters with little risk, and I've been in groups where a CR 17 monster is way too tough for those 15 level PCs built for story over power.

As for why huge giants - GIANT didn't feel giant. It felt big. The difference between a hill giant and an ogre was just not enough to make giants iconic. So, they made them bigger. They did discuss this early on....

 

[Upper_Krust]

It is a better indicator of what you think is the actual CR. That is your hangup (and was mine too). The CR is what the guidelines say they are and the MM monsters generally agree. You just don't like what CR represents in 5e and that is OK.

I just no longer see the benefit in fighting it. I think you know how that fight works out.

High CR monsters are weak and get weaker the higher you go. That correlates intrinsically to those secondary modifiers, which are more prevalent the higher you go.

Adhering closely to the DMG pg. 274 table without incorporating the secondary modifiers looks like both a much simpler and a much more effective way of handling monster design.

 

[Upper_Krust]

@S'mon and @Upper_Krust , have either of you look at Sandy Peterson's Cthulhu Mythos (5e) ? They have some interesting ideas for epic monsters that I thought you might find interesting.

Looks like a gorgeous book. Tad expensive. Sort of thing S'mon should have got me for my birthday.

 

[Upper_Krust]

I skimmed this thread so not sure if this was posted. 3.5ed. 5e also got rid of colossus size so that might be part of it:

You would anticipate the reason was miniatures based. Colossal Dragon miniatures are (generally) too darn expensive and not that portable.

 

[AnotherGuy]

High CR monsters are weak and get weaker the higher you go. That correlates intrinsically to those secondary modifiers, which are more prevalent the higher you go.

Adhering closely to the DMG pg. 274 table without incorporating the secondary modifiers looks like both a much simpler and a much more effective way of handling monster design.

Sorry, I've been popping in and out of this convo so have not been following as closely - what are the secondary modifiers you are referring to?

And second that Cthulhu book as a little too pricey for me right now.

 

[Upper_Krust]

All we're doing is comparing apples to oranges when we talk about how suitable opponents are. I've been in 15th level parties that were very efficient and could take out CR 20+ monsters with little risk, and I've been in groups where a CR 17 monster is way too tough for those 15 level PCs built for story over power.

You can see by even eyeballing the higher CR monsters that they are flimsy. But as S'mon noted you should expect high level party's to be as tactically competent as their level suggests.

As for why huge giants - GIANT didn't feel giant. It felt big. The difference between a hill giant and an ogre was just not enough to make giants iconic. So, they made them bigger. They did discuss this early on....

Agreed. Took me a while to warm up to the idea but I like it now.