Why are things immune to crits?

[Shard O'Glase]

I think constructs and corporeal undead should be affected by critical strikes from a logical POV. A hit to the knee of a golem would be much more effective in stopping it then a hit to the torso. The same of course goes for zombies, skeletons and vampires.

From a game balance POV I dont know, constructs and undead are maybe immune to crits to compensate for not having Con.

ditto, I don't mind a resistance to crits because they are fewer weak points, but immunity seems lame in virtually every situation to me. Slimes for example ok immune to crits, but heck inanimate objects should be critable IMO.

While I'm complaining about the crit system, I'd like to see in 4e or whatever a removal of the % based crit resistance in the fortificaiton armor. I'd either give a crit resistance that worked like SR, a separate crit AC that worked with the initial attack roll,(basically have to beat AC by X to crit) or a crit defense roll, which was a set number that creature/object got modified by a d20 that had to beat the attack roll or BAB+10 of oppenent or something to avoid a crit. This crit resistance system would extend to everything not just fort armor because again I don't think golems etc should be immune to crits.

 

[AuraSeer]

To make them resistant to crits, but not immune, you could give them an AC bonus that only applies to the confirmation roll. I'd put it at +4 or +6, or possibly even higher, depending on the CR.

 

[jgsugden]

To make them resistant to crits, but not immune, you could give them an AC bonus that only applies to the confirmation roll. I'd put it at +4 or +6, or possibly even higher, depending on the CR.

I like this rule, as one option.

I've always hated that rogues that have no knowledge of the anatomy of a creature can find a vital location on the creature and nail it. I've toyed around with rules that require the rogue to have sufficient levels of knowledge in the appropriate knowledge skill to find the vitals. Unfortunately, I have been unable to come up with a good balance that keeps the sneak attack ability balanced if I impose this penalty.

Considering an andoid would be very different than a humanoid, you might consider applying the rule to this situation. A player has to spend some knowledge points on the proper 'technology' to understand where to hit a robot to give it a critical hit.

 

[Vaxalon]

I wouldn't create a new mechanic. I'd give them various percentages that the critical/sneak doesn't work, like fortified armor.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I think constructs and corporeal undead should be affected by critical strikes from a logical POV. A hit to the knee of a golem would be much more effective in stopping it then a hit to the torso. The same of course goes for zombies, skeletons and vampires.

I disagree. D&D doesn't use hit locations, with the exception of vorpal weapons, so leg attacks vs torso attacks is irrelevant. A crit is more like a kidney shot, which does more damage than a "normal" knife wound because a damaged kidney causes a living creature problems. A zombie, on the other hand, doesn't mind if his kidney has been punctured. It's perfectly sensible that undead and constructs be immune to crits.

It's the same problem for plants: certain areas, such as root structure, stems, are weaker than others. It seems like a balance decision, so it doesn't really matter whether your androids are immune to crits or not. What matters is if they are balanced with/without that immunity.

I agree.

Others have suggested requiring that the rogue take ranks in Knowledge (Robotics) or some such to gain the ability to crit the androids, which I think is a good idea. The rogue needs to figure out where the android's weak points are before he can strike them. I'd either require 5 ranks in Knowledge (Robotics) or simply that he gain access to a schematic of the robots in question.

 

[Gantros]

This is something that I've often found annoying. How do you describe what happens when someone "kills" a creature that is immune to crits? If I lop off a zombie's head, or chop a slime in half, does it die?

The rules seem to imply that a crit represents a hit to a vital area. I interpret "vital area" as being some part of a creature that it needs survive, hence damaging it brings the creature closer to death than hitting it elsewhere. If a creature doesn't have any vital areas that I can damage, then how am I able to kill it?

Another interesting thought... we already have the DR mechanic for creatures that are difficult to damage due to hardness (in the case of golems), supernatural nature (in the case of outsiders), toughness (in the case of barbarians), etc. Doesn't it seem redundant to have a crit immunity mechanic that ostensibly covers the same thing?

 

[barsoomcore]

A hit to the knee of a golem would be much more effective in stopping it then a hit to the torso. The same of course goes for zombies, skeletons and vampires.

Um, why? I mean, what makes a clay golem with a gimpy knee any less dangerous?

Likewise for undead. They're not mechanical objects (nor are constructs) -- a skeleton doesn't have ligaments, for heaven's sake, so what's holding it together in the first place? Chopping off the leg of something that didn't have a hamstring to begin with is unlikely to impede it any further.

 

[med stud]

My point about a hit to the knees, neck or elbow on a golem or undead is that a hit to any of those areas makes a better job of taking out the construct or undead then a hit to the torso.

D&D doesnt have hit locations but a critical hit is stated as a hit to a vital that does more damage then a regular hit. That means that the system has some kind of hit locations worked in; a kidney, brain or heart is a hit location.

Therefore a critical attack against a golem wouldnt mean that you pierced the lungs of the golem but that you hit it in a weak spot in which an attack would do a lot to incapacitate the creature. A good example would be in a joint. A hit to knee of an iron golem wouldnt "kill it" directly, but it would defenitly hamper it's movements etc. As the D&D system for wounds doesnt allow for kneecapping it is better simulated as a big damage to HP = a critical strike. Repeated critical strikes that would reduce the golem to 0 HP would be the total effect of hacking off the limbs of the golem. This wouldnt create any special effects during the combat but it would make the battle go faster and it would provide some descriptions for what happened in the game.

But that's the logical reasons. If dealing criticals to constructs and undead was allowed their CRs would have to be reworked etc, which seems to be a lot of work for something that (IMO) isnt that much needed.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

D&D doesnt have hit locations but a critical hit is stated as a hit to a vital that does more damage then a regular hit. That means that the system has some kind of hit locations worked in; a kidney, brain or heart is a hit location.

I agree.

Therefore a critical attack against a golem wouldnt mean that you pierced the lungs of the golem but that you hit it in a weak spot

The point being that golems don't have such weak spots.

in which an attack would do a lot to incapacitate the creature. A good example would be in a joint. A hit to knee of an iron golem wouldnt "kill it" directly, but it would defenitly hamper it's movements etc.

Based on what? You're talking about a giant hunk of metal moving by means of magic. It has no iron ligaments that can be cut. No iron kneecap that can be broken. It's simply not vulnerable in that fashion.

logical

You keep using this word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

[dcollins]

D&D doesnt have hit locations but a critical hit is stated as a hit to a vital that does more damage then a regular hit. That means that the system has some kind of hit locations worked in; a kidney, brain or heart is a hit location... Therefore a critical attack against a golem wouldnt mean that you pierced the lungs of the golem...

It's no fair to redefine "critical hits" just to force them into existence on a different creature type. It looks like you accept that "critical hit = kidney, brain, heart, or likewise". You also accept that golems/undead have no working kidneys, brains, or hearts. Therefore the actual logical deduction is that golems/undead cannot suffer from critical hits.