Why average wealth by level is a good thing.

[Gryph]

This something I've never ran into. I've never had a player feel like they should be getting more then they are. I'm not sure how else this would show itself. Do players keep track of their item values and compare it to the chart to make sure they are were they need to be?

I ran into this early on with my 4e group. They were counting up the magic item parcels I'd given to the group.

I switched to the inherent bonus rules and told them I was using the recommendation in the DMG2 to reduce treasure given when using the inherent bonuses.

It turned out that they started counting items given because they felt by level 6 they were starting to fall behind the power curve for the encounters they were facing (they were). With inherent bonuses and a scattering of magic items purely at my whim they have been pretty happy.

I still use the wealth by level (4e version) as guidelines but I don't worry about hitting the exact mark. My current group has been over once or twice and behind a few times.

I do like having the guidelines there.

 

[the Jester]

This something I've never ran into. I've never had a player feel like they should be getting more then they are. I'm not sure how else this would show itself. Do players keep track of their item values and compare it to the chart to make sure they are were they need to be?

Not too many, but it only takes one for the potential obnoxiousness to be made so apparent that it will forevermore taint your feelings for wealth by level guidelines.

 

[Hand of Evil]

Taxable Income!

 

[wolff96]

This something I've never ran into. I've never had a player feel like they should be getting more then they are. I'm not sure how else this would show itself. Do players keep track of their item values and compare it to the chart to make sure they are were they need to be?

I've had players complain that I'm being "stingy" before, but the one that takes the cake...

I had a player -- experienced, but new to our group -- who came in during a moderately long arc in which there was very little treasure. Granted, there was a HUGE haul at the end of it, but the players didn't know that. He looked at his character sheet and the lack of wealth, looked at the WbL table, and decided that "for roleplaying reasons" he wanted to retire the character and create a new one. (And since he told one of the other players the real reason, this is not idle speculation.)

I was surprised - he had seemed to be enjoying the character - but let him leave the storyline. He then brought in a new character, with the correct WbL and all gear specifically tailored to what he "needed" to be effective. At the end of that very session, they reached the end of the arc, found the mystic site they had been seeking... and discovered that all who had previously tried to use the site had died. The resulting treasure from all those adventurers was worth FAR MORE treasure than the normal WbL.

He ended up leaving the group after arguing that his new character - who had been rescued by the party two hours prior - deserved a full share of the treasure. The other players around the table felt differently and argued it out in-character. I don't get involved in treasure distribution as DM. He left in a fury because we were "ripping him off" and he "wouldn't have retired (his old character) if he had known there was going to be a big haul".

------------------------------------

I don't understand the mentality, but I have seen it. Maybe money is just a way of keeping score for some players?

 

[TanisFrey]

4E takes it a step further by putting a level on every item and offering explicit guidelines as to when the PCs are supposed to get access to what stuff. (I prefer this to wealth by level, since WBL involves a massive amount of bookkeeping for the DM.)

This started in late 3.5, when they published the Magic Item Compendium. It gave a level to all magic items from the DMG and itself.

 

[Raven Crowking]

I understand why some like them; I do not. Nor do I need them.

I do think that Hussar is right, though, in that people with a sense of entitlement have always existed, and that WbL was just a new weapon in their arsenal.....and a means of recruitment to their POV.


RC

 

[ThirdWizard]

That said, I hate them. They lead to a profound sense of player entitlement that I just cannot stand.

To be fair, there is a large problem with 3.5 being balanced around wealth by level in regards to relative power level of spellcasters and non-spellcasters.

 

[Janx]

This started in late 3.5, when they published the Magic Item Compendium. It gave a level to all magic items from the DMG and itself.

didn't know that. That's not a bad idea, though a level requirement before handing out, only solves part of the problem. How many Level5 items is my Level5 PC allowed to have? How many lesser items, and in what combinations?

if nothing else, item level acting as a max(you can't use items higher than your level, and they generally won't appear), and WbL takes care of the combinations problem.

In 2e, I eyeballed it by assuming a PC should see the spread of +X items across a 20 level span. Thus, every 4 levels, they should get a +1 upgrade.

As to the comment that +X items added complexity to the game, as a designer, +X is the SIMPLEST mechanic to implement. It's mathematically predictable and is easily modeled by rules. It's the special powers that are hard to abjudicate or balance.

I think the real complaint about it is that PCs are virtually nothing, without their gear. Which is relatively true, in that fighting wiith a +4 sword is like being 4 levels higher than you really are, and much of the game assumes that by 18th level, you have that +4 weapon.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

To be fair, there is a large problem with 3.5 being balanced around wealth by level in regards to relative power level of spellcasters and non-spellcasters.

WbL is integral to the obnoxiousness of the Christmas tree effect.

 

[Hassassin]

It's the special powers that are hard to abjudicate or balance.

I'd go even further: Many special abilities cannot be balanced. Some because they are only powerful when used correctly so their power varies with the user. Some because they are only powerful in certain situations or against certain enemies.

In fact, I think a perfectly balanced game would only have +X items that you automagically get as you level up. That would be boring.