why cant I sneak attack with a longbow?

[wujenta]

Hi all, I was looking the new books, trying to convert one of my 3.5 characters to 4E... she is a human rogue/swasbuckler (5/3) who wields rapier and bukler when in hand to hand combat and longbow when ranged and was doing great, I made her a rogue 8 ... I had to spend 3 feats to gain proficiency in the rapier, longbow and light shield but at the end , she came more or less a great character, who can make nearly all things she made in 3.5... but then i noticed that you cant sneak attack with a longbow??? but you can with a hand crosbow ?

why exactly did they do this... crosbow needed love i supose, and in all the years playing 3.X none of my friends or myself use a crosbow ever...

I dont like to houserule something without having played first, but I ask if any1 has found strange this rule and has changed it already and how this affected the game...

Thanks for all

 

[ForbidenMaster]

Well a longbow now does d10 damage, so maybe they did it to keep the damage in check.

 

[Volabit]

New Game

I think the biggest thing one has to realize is that its a new game. Sad there are no druids for me, but since this is a new game it means there are not going to be conversions. Unlike 3e to 3.5e, where it used the same basic game, just reworded stuff, 4e is a new creature entirely. This means we have to rethink what it means to heal (healing surges), how often we can do things, and what it means to be X class. I think the traditional idea of a rogue being a hard hitter with skills aplenty holds true to any game, either tabletop or MMO. But how they go about it is different for each system. 4e being a new system, its a new type of rogue. Perhaps the idea I use to explain it is that a rogue is specialized in only a few weapons, but because they are specialized in those few select weapons they have become more deadly when the opportunity presents itself. If you give a rogue a weapon they have become familiar with, it doesn't mean they have trained and become specialized with it to gain that benifit (sneak attacks). I guess that's the rationlization I would use. Hopefully that helps. If not then perhaps house rule the game to fit how you want it to play. The game is adaptable, fill your needs as you see fit, but most importantly, enjoy your play.

 

[Pistonrager]

easy... the class should really be named "ninja" or if that rubs you the wrong way, a handcrossbow is a stealthier weapon than a longbow, and it's what the class powers focus on, so you can get sneak attack on a power.

 

[small pumpkin man]

1)Longbows do more damage.

2)Crossbows better fit the assassin archetype.

 

[Blackbrrd]

Multiclass into ranger so you can get hunters quarry (lasts until the end of your next turn, so you get the 1d6 extra damage twice).

Take one or more of the power substitution feats to get some powers that use your bow.

Now you can do great damage with bow AND rapier. If the damage is from sneak attack or hunters quarry doesn't matter so much?

Sounds like a great character btw

 

[Ginnel]

How about when your character gets a longbow into her hands, you and your DM agree that it acts exactly like a handcrossbow, same range, same damage, same sneak attack, same basic attack, maybe and I do say maybe allow you to do a normal ranged attack at the longbows normal range and damage after spending a feat or something, it doesn't break the game and bang you get the look your after.

If someone steals/borrows your longbow it would work as a normal longbow for them, and of course if you got an actual handcrossbow into your hands you wouldn't be able to use it for sneak attack

 

[Ten]

My guess? Longbows are 5-6 feet tall, and have up to a 200 pound draw. It is simply too unwieldy to draw, aim, and release at a sneak attack level precision in the middle of combat. It makes sense that you can't sneak attack with a longbow to me...

 

[TimeOut]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0018.html

But I agree, longbows are not included in my definition of stealthiness.

 

[Derren]

What has the stealthiness of a weapon has to do with sneak attack?

When you for example attack someone who is unaware of you it doesn't matter how big your bow is.

 

[TimeOut]

... and in that case I would allow the damage to apply. But in a combat situation probably not.

 

[Whimsical]

I think you should be able to sneak attack with any weapon.
(three minutes and 30 seconds into the video)

 

[gamesmeister]

If you can Sneak Attack with a L Crossbow, why can't you sneak attack with Shuriken? Or can you...have I missed it?

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

"I backstab him with...A BALLISTA!"
classic

the rules are trying to suggest you have to use a very accurate, stealthy weapon, and probably to prevent abuse.

Crossbows are far closer to rifles, than than they are to a longbow (bar damage type).

• Crossbows are extremely accurate for a non-firearm.
• You can keep a crossbow cocked as long as you want. Try THAT with a longbow without losing your finger tips, or grip, lol. Most war longbows had a pull of between 80 and 120lbs. Try pulling a non-compound 60lb bow...!
• Bows work by "the archer's paradox", basically they cannot help but be innacurate, and there's no proper sights, so while an archer can hit a human target reliably if he has innate skill/practice, he's not gonna hit your heart/kidneys reliably, as we're talking combat, not a target shoot.
  Please remember, a real historical bow is NOT a modern target bow. And Mongolian archers did not and never could "hit someone in the heart from 200 paces", that kind of stuff is rubbish...if 1,000 archer's fire, some will of course, hit some unlucky buggers in the heart
  Horseback archery = garbage for accuracy, hence, Mongols and Huns had to practice constantly.
• You can fire a crossbow while lying on your belly, thus, attack from stealth is far easier. Interestingly, this is why the British Sten and Sterling submachine guns had the magazines fitted at the side, and the Australian Owen was a top loader, so you could fire them easier lying down.

 

[Shieldhaven]

My guess on why you can't sneak attack with a longbow? They haven't written the feat for it yet.

I would be willing to bet that there will be one, though.

And if there isn't, well, D&D is the kind of game where you could fix that yourself.

Haven

 

[lukelightning]

Easy. Because then everybody would be sneak attacking with longbows. That's why you can't sneak attack with greatswords or ballistas either.

 

[wujenta]

Multiclass into ranger so you can get hunters quarry (lasts until the end of your next turn, so you get the 1d6 extra damage twice).

Take one or more of the power substitution feats to get some powers that use your bow.

Now you can do great damage with bow AND rapier. If the damage is from sneak attack or hunters quarry doesn't matter so much?

Sounds like a great character btw

I like the idea, thanks. I will try to do exactly that and get some powers from ranger to be good in ranged combat with a bow... but now I dont know if i have the feats to do that, I´m at work and cant check my character...dammn real life getting in the way of playing...

 

[Stoat]

Is this a mechanical issue or just a flavor issue?

In other words, does it screw up the math or overpower the rogue to allow sneak attack to work with a longbow?

 

[Scalding]

How about a feat to allow this:

[sblock=Signature Weapon (Rogue)]
Prerequisites: Rogue Class, proficiency with weapon
Benefit: You can use Sneak Attack with this weapon.
[/sblock]

I think this feat would balance player's desire to sneak attack with other weapons. As a fantasy game, reality can take a back seat.

 

[threegee]

Easy. Because then everybody would be sneak attacking with longbows. That's why you can't sneak attack with greatswords or ballistas either.

I'm all about throwing greatswords for sneak attack damage. No one expects it. D&D FTW!