D&D 5E (2014) Why do 5e lycanthropes get their powers in human form?

[Minigiant]

curse is often becomes 'cursed with awesome'

Using that is when, like @Fanaelialae , said, the curse is embraced as a blessing.

 

[Hussar]

When I had a character inflicted the DM just homebrewed something for me, where when I changed I got a bunch of temp HPs and that was it for the defenses. What's in the book isn't balanced vs. PCs.

Oooh, now THERE's an interesting idea. Just a round by round Temp HP bonus. Makes you very hard to kill, say, 2d6 temp HP every round, but, it won't bring you up from zero. I like a random number, just because dice are fun, and it adds a bit of spice to the character. Any encounter, you'd always start with 12, because Temp HP don't go away but, during combat, it would be a bit variable.

Yoink! Thank you.

And note, Were-Raven's are not exactly a "curse" of lycanthropy. You don't lose control, and you are mostly aware of things all the time.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Oooh, now THERE's an interesting idea. Just a round by round Temp HP bonus. Makes you very hard to kill, say, 2d6 temp HP every round, but, it won't bring you up from zero. I like a random number, just because dice are fun, and it adds a bit of spice to the character. Any encounter, you'd always start with 12, because Temp HP don't go away but, during combat, it would be a bit variable.

Yoink! Thank you.

And note, Were-Raven's are not exactly a "curse" of lycanthropy. You don't lose control, and you are mostly aware of things all the time.

IMO, a curse doesn't have to be nightmarish to be a curse. Maybe the character is the kind of guy who just wants to spend his days carousing at the local tavern. However, his wereraven curse compels him to spend his time chasing after pretty baubles and donating to charity instead. Not exactly the stuff of most horror stories, but quite inconvenient nonetheless.

 

[Hussar]

That’s not so much a curse as a character foible. Not really quite on the same level as murdering you family in a wolf induced rage.

 

[Fanaelialae]

That’s not so much a curse as a character foible. Not really quite on the same level as murdering you family in a wolf induced rage.

I did say that it isn't a nightmarish curse. On the other hand, being forced to behave in a way that is out of character goes beyond the scope of a mere foible, IMO. It's akin to a Geas that you can't ignore, or being permanently under the effects of Dominate.

If the character loves treasure (most adventurers do) but the curse compels them to give most of their treasure to the local orphanage, then that's most certainly a curse, despite a complete lack of a compulsion to slaughter the aforementioned orphans. Heck, for a murder hobo player, the former compulsion is likely a much worse curse than the latter.

Of course, for my players, the real curse is having to write NPC on their sheet (only if they choose to have their character to surrender to the curse, but the only other way to get the benefits of the curse is to spend several levels mastering the associated [homebrew] class).

 

[Guest 85555]

Just kinda realized this. It’s completely out of keeping with mythological lycanthropes and wasn’t even true in earlier editions. At least not all editions.

So why?

I recently made werewolves for a game. The hardest part was choosing which lore and or pop culture to set as canon. So my first question is are they modeling lycanthropes from a particular source?

I don't play 5E: what abilities do they have in human form (I could see subtle things like enhanced senses and animal instincts working okay)

 

[Guest 85555]

IMO, a curse doesn't have to be nightmarish to be a curse. Maybe the character is the kind of guy who just wants to spend his days carousing at the local tavern. However, his wereraven curse compels him to spend his time chasing after pretty baubles and donating to charity instead. Not exactly the stuff of most horror stories, but quite inconvenient nonetheless.

Call me old fashioned, but I like lycanthropy where PCs wake up in an alley mysteriously covered in blood (obviously were ravens are a different type of lycanthrope, and good aligned so maybe a chaotic evil PC wakes up in an alley mysteriously covered in charity receipts )

 

[see]

Just kinda realized this. It’s completely out of keeping with mythological lycanthropes and wasn’t even true in earlier editions. At least not all editions.

Running down the versions . . . it was true in 0e and 1e (or at least they had no exceptions listed), was inconsistent depending on type of lycanthrope in 2e, not true in 3e, not true in Holmes, not true in B/X, not true in BECMI, not true in Rules Cyclopedia.

 

[Willie the Duck]

Just kinda realized this. It’s completely out of keeping with mythological lycanthropes and wasn’t even true in earlier editions. At least not all editions.

So why?

My stab at the 'why' part: -- I just checked my old games, and while Lycanthropes lose their immunity to non-silvered, non-magical weapons while in human form in the basic/classic line, but AD&D does not follow suit. 5e was designed, at least in part, to recapture lapsed TSR-era gamers who had drifted away in 3e or 4e (or earlier), since they had no notion that 5e would be such a hit with new gamers (and their ambitions for the game were more than just 'keep they buyers we have'). Thus, there are lots of little nods, winks, and throwbacks to the way things once were. Not sure if emulating AD&D rather than (for example) B/X has any meaning, or it was just a 'had to chose one way or the other' situation.

Beyond that, near invulnerability (but only when in a specific mode/stance/configuration/form) works better for narratives than games. It's great in comic books (Hulk/Bruce Banner, who in the comics usually can be killed while in human form), tv shows (Dinobots in the original Transformers), or the books (there's a scene in Clive Barker's Cabal where the quasi-undead/lycanthrope protagonist is about to face the main antagonist 'as a man,' and then has a 'what on Earth am I doing?' moment before turning into his neigh-invulnerable form and greasing him). It allows the otherwise scene-ruining character to be taken out as needed by the plot, but the author will always give them enough warning to transform when necessary. In a game, it just incentivizes characters to stay in the invulnerable form at all times 'just in case.' Mind you, the game/DM could make that hard (similar to druid forms and spellcasting) and that be part of the fun, but I suspect that the devs expected less of that and more of the old 'novice DM insists that this town does not allow adventurers to wander around with weapons and armor when and only when they they want to spring a PCs-captured-and-in-jail-cell scenario, and everyone hates it' situation.

Except that were-ravens are presented as pc options in both Strahd and Candlekeep.

As a monster I don’t care but as a pc? That’s ridiculous.

I would have preferred that not be there. That said, it does mean that it is the DM deciding to include this portion of the adventure, and a DM that does so had best be prepared for the fallout. It's a step less 'communicated norm' than having werecreature as a PC race option for building new characters (although DMs should be comfortable vetoing both events in an adventure and unbalancing character-creation options). Given that plenty of newer DMs are the ones who run modules, I would prefer that options that can easily cause problems were presented and suggested. Let the PCs decide to experiment with subjecting themselves to lycanthopy on their own. My own recollection of my early gaming experience suggests it won't take too long for most groups.

Fundamentally, I think D&D (from a very early stage) mishandled lycanthropy*, vampirism, and being a lich. They are 3 qualities that the PCs clearly can acquire. They are acquirable through relatively clear means (the first two by capturing an existing one and saying 'make me a vampire/werewolf'), so it is harder (short of just saying 'I don't want to run that') for the DM to keep them from it (compared to say, membership in a secret society or the like). Yet the power level of the specific implementation of the base concepts are so far towards the upper end (vampires get a huge array of powers from the folklore, werewolves are low-tier invulnerable, liches are low-tier immortal). It could have been that vampires gave a bite attack and one other vampirish ability (the Dhampir lineage option is a good example), Werewolves could resemble the Shifter race, and Liches could be like 3e Necropolitans. IMO that would have worked much better for things PCs could (relatively) easily get, and reserve the higher-power abilities for things easier to gatekeep (an 'Elder Vampire' MM entry would be easy to say "sorry, your character will get these powers in a few centuries if they stay as a vampire, but we won't be playing that any time soon").
*the curse gained from a bite, being a native-born one can work however they need.

 

[Willie the Duck]

I don't play 5E: what abilities do they have in human form (I could see subtle things like enhanced senses and animal instincts working okay)

Since 2014: Immunity to non-silvered, non-magical weapons (in all forms). Since Monsters of the Multiverse (for those switching over): regeneration during rounds where they are not hit by a such weapons (or non-weapon magical damage).