Why do most groups avoid planar games?

[Celebrim]

But there are a few people out there whose horizons might be broadened, and might pick up planar products.

I didn't realize the point was to evangelize. No wonder I've felt so out of step in this thread.

Here that Philreed? The reason most groups avoid planar games is that those groups have narrow minded people. Psion's got it all settled.

Oh, and GI Joe and TMNT were the greatest cartoons ever.

The Dungeons & Dragons cartoon, maybe? 'City on the Edge of Midnight'?

 

[Henry]

Most of the people who seem to vehemently have a distaste for Planescape are people who grew up playing 1st ed and, for the most part, aren't familiar with PS beyond maybe the first box set. It's probably a combination of lack of exposure and just different playing style. This is of course just a massive generalization on my part, and I might be very wrong in my perceptions here...

Nah, you're pretty close.

Oh, and GI Joe and TMNT were the greatest cartoons ever.

...and how far off at the same time! Everyone knows the original Johnny Quest was the pinnacle of animated perfection!

 

[Shemeska]

I just don't think of devils sitting around in bars at all. Roasting sinners over the eternal fires of Hell, maybe. I don't think of these entities as truly 'living' the way you - Planescape - does. Life is what happens in the real world - the Prime - to me the non-Prime planes are more like shards of belief, generated by the beliefs of the real people, the inhabitants of the Primes.

I like this description of their activities better. From a short bit I wrote up for Planewalker:
It's also mildly icky, so spoiler tag supplied for those of delicate mind

Spoiler

“Why can’t I move? I can’t see anything else either…”

“Why is it so dark here? I don’t remember what I’m doing here… I… powers above I don’t know who I am…”

“I don’t remember anything! What’s going on?!”

“My hands and feet, they burn so horribly, I can barely feel them. My back feels like it’s been torn open. Was I beaten and left for dead? Why does it hurt so much?”

“I… ARRRGGGHHHH!!!!”

The sudden burning, searing pain passed.

“I…I think I remember something, yes… The Baatezu had legions two hundred thousand strong under the command of the Pit Fiend Callorgrist. They were bound for the planes of Oinos, to fight…”

“Why do I remember that so vividly? What does that mean? I can’t remember anything else, not even my name…”

“ARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!”

The pain came and went as sudden and quick as before, a burning searing pain that lashed at the mind and body.

“In exchange for the true name of a Gelugon at the gates of Nessus and seven hundred and seventy seven mortal souls entrapped in gems, one hundred and eleven each having committed and been damned for each one of the seven sins of greater damnation…”

“What is this… why do I know this… what does this have to do with the pain… can anyone hear me?!”

Another scream passed unheard from tortured lips, then came and went again, and again.

“The Baatezu will be given the services of one hundred thousand Mezzoloth, and the standard composition of Dergholoth. A regiment of eighty Nycaloth and forty Arcanaloth will accompany them as well to combat suspected use of Arcanist Varrangoin in the coming days to lay siege to their forces by air…”

“How is it I know this? Why is this the only thing I can remember?!…”

One more scream passed from the deformed, stretched, blood flecked lips.

“The contract is agreed to by both Callorgrist and the Keeper of the Tower, the agreement is signed and payment is given, the gems now, the True Name after the coming battle should Callorgrist survive… Please… someone answer me… “

There was no response as Helekanalaith, the Keeper of the Tower of the Arcanaloths nodded to the Pit Fiend and cupped the first gem of many in his hands, examining each with the practiced eye of a greater Yugoloth. He nodded to the other Arcanaloth in the room who concluded the contract with a flourish by branding the sigils of both parties into the twitching, tortured flesh of the petitioner who lay before him, stretched flat atop a steel frame, bound by nails and spells to the metal, mindless except for the details of the contract burned into his body.

“I don’t remember anything, not who I am, or why I’m here. I only know that it hurts so much… I only know the pain and that the Baatezu had legions two hundred thousand strong…”

 

[Psion]

The reason most groups avoid planar games is that those groups have narrow minded people. Psion's got it all settled.

Please don't set up strawmen of my arguments. I never called anyone "narrow minded". Those were your words. Not having the facts is not the same as being narrow minded.

People have their own reasons that they might not like planar games. That's okay. I'm not interested in trying to change people's tastes, nor do I label them "narrow minded" for having preferences about how they spend their leisure time.

However, some people might be avoiding planar games based upon misconceptoins vice purely taste issues. Those are the folks I am trying to communicate with. I realize you are not one of them, so I am not trying to convert you.

 

[Mercule]

Y'know, I loved the Planescape setting, but the cant bugged me too.

Funny. I didn't like Planescape, but the cant never really bugged me. I guess I'd read enough Shadowrun, chummer, to not be overly bothered by a bit of slang in the rules text.

 

[Umbran]

Call it what you like. What it boils down to is I saw your statement as trying to define a formula by which one could define people's tastes as "right" or "wrong".

Wow, are you off today, Psion. Take a look at the posts in this thread, and you tell me who is more actively trying to tell other folks they are wrong.

In no way, shape, or form am I trying to define anyone's tastes as right or wrong. Or, viewed another way, I'm working from the assumption that everyone's tastes are right.

Let's say I say, "I find that I lose X in planar games, and so I don't like them." Certainly, I am correct in that statement - it is my own personal experience. Given that Phil has seen this a number of times, it is not unreasonable to figure that there may be trends in what X may be.

I may be incorrect in my belief that planar gaming must result in the loss of X, but that's really beside the point (for now). Phil asked why people avoid the games. It makes sense to first accrue the list of reasons before assaulting the preconceptions (and maybe occaisonal misconceptions) behind the reasons.

 

[Psion]

Wow, are you off today, Psion. Take a look at the posts in this thread, and you tell me who is more actively trying to tell other folks they are wrong.

So you say, umbran, but I have only pained to point out where I thought people were trying to tell people who were playing planar games were objectively wrong.

In no way, shape, or form am I trying to define anyone's tastes as right or wrong. Or, viewed another way, I'm working from the assumption that everyone's tastes are right.

That's good to know. I can only read the words that were on the page, and from there, we can clarify.

 

[Janx]

Wow, what a long thread.

I think one point that hasn't been brought up is the issue of the party having a homebase.

For many GM's it is standard practice to start the PCs in a small area, and slowly work their way upward to larger scale exploration and adventures. This practice effectively sets the PCs up as having a homebase location, where they return to after adventures, and often, their adventures are in support of that homebase.

Plane hopping tends to imply a lot of traveling and NOT returning home. Basically, the PCs have no sense of place. This is counter to the above paradigm.

Later, as the PCs get higher level, the scope of their activities involve going longer distances, so plane hopping certainly fits in with "long distance"


Granted, not al DMs run games this way, some have the party travel non-stop from 1st level up, never sleeping in the same bed twice. In which case, plane-hopping or world traveling is equally applicable.

Janx

 

[werk]

I have fond memories of the Planescape campaign I ran during the 2nd edition days. I love Planescape. It's one of my favorite settings.

That said, I've never ran a "planar" game that wasn't set in Planescape, and if I ran one today, I'm certain that Planescape would heavily influence it in some way.

And we didn't run it as a high level game. It was just like any other game, though we did tend to take the idea of weird locations and surreal environments to the extreme. I enjoyed letting my imagination run wild.

This pretty much sums up my feelings on it. I liked the planes before planescape and when planescape came out I went nutz. It is canon in my games. I did start planescape campaigns at 3rd level, same as darksun, because I thought characters needed a little help or they wouldn't have ever left home. Nothing like planescape to make your characters mind their p's and q's and watch thier mouth because they are grease-spots compared to regular NPC's in a bar. But that was for planewalker campaigns.

A lot of people think of 'the planes' as the Abyss or plane of fire, because the monsters are most people's only experience with the planes. But once you look at it as a complete setting, and use it as such, it works fine...better than fine. You can start a regular campaign on Arborea or the Outlands or most of the lawful or good planes and not even tell the players they are not on prime (clueless). Run that like a regular campaign and then have the 'dark' of it all revealed when you are ready...berk.

 

[werk]

<rant>

I also hate amnesia. I think it is a cop-out and a torment rip-off. To me, it's like starting every adventure in a bar.

</rant>