Why do so many people hate Voyager?

Tsyr said:
4) Lack of Continuity. Another one many have mentioned. An as-yet un-mentioned example: The crew is on replicator rations, right? Things are tight and all? So why in the heck does the holodeck seem to get 24/7 use? For gods sake, for a while they had a program running 24/7 for a really long time... ONE PROGRAM!
(SNIP)
5b) Another point about this. What was the inital estimate for getting home? 60 or 70 years? And what is the estimate when you figure they spend better than 50% of their time orbiting some planet or studying some stellar phenomenon?
In defense of the show... the replicator rations was a problem fairly early in the show. After a while, they got all systems up to speed again and had a fairly decent resource level.

I find it more unbelievable that this ship with ~140 crew members far away from home have managed to go beyond mainstream Starfleet technology in several areas, such as the Delta Flyer. OK, they have the advantage of some Borg tech, but still...
 

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I can't believe they built the Delta Flyer, when they have the Captain's Aerowing Shuttle on the bottom of the Voyager's Saucer/Primary Hull section.

Then again, they did it in order to incorporate Borg technology with other technology they acquired in the Delta Quadrant. And they did so in a race to retrieve something in a gas giant against their competitor, them stinky Malon.
 

6b) For that matter, we see that between the borg and earth there are hundreds, if not THOUSANDS of civilzations... the borg just seem holed up in one nebula. I always envisioned (based on guinans descriptions, and the few sensor readings data took when they were in borg space in TNG) that the entire quadrant the borg where in was just wasteland. Why are they even BOTHERING with earth yet?
Well, that might be explained - probably the borg ship that encountered the Enterprise (when Q send them there) detected to many intereting facts aboard the "stolen" ship parts. - The Federation is a highly advanced "space nation", and it seems if there was nothing like that in the Delta Quadrant ...

But the voyager really seemed to make the Borg ridicolous - such a litte and weak ship, but never where the Borg able to destroy and/or capture it. Why? How did the conquer their terretories? How did the succed at Wolf 359?

Mustrum Ridcully
 

Right folks - as if you've never before liked fiction where the heros managed to win out when nobody else could beat the bad guy. Heck, I'd expect some of you have played in and loved RPGs where such things happened. Being people who can win out when others cannot is a mainstay of heroic fiction.

Why did the crew of Voyager win? Because the show's named after them, folks! Be a darned short series otherwise.
 

Umbran said:
Right folks - as if you've never before liked fiction where the heros managed to win out when nobody else could beat the bad guy. Heck, I'd expect some of you have played in and loved RPGs where such things happened. Being people who can win out when others cannot is a mainstay of heroic fiction.

Why did the crew of Voyager win? Because the show's named after them, folks! Be a darned short series otherwise.

The man has a point:D
 

Umbran said:
Right folks - as if you've never before liked fiction where the heros managed to win out when nobody else could beat the bad guy. Heck, I'd expect some of you have played in and loved RPGs where such things happened. Being people who can win out when others cannot is a mainstay of heroic fiction.

Why did the crew of Voyager win? Because the show's named after them, folks! Be a darned short series otherwise.

The simple solution would be to not pit them against species that are so far beyond them technology wise that Voyager should, realisticly, have all the same threat to them the a bi-plane would have to voyager. I mean, god... Species-whatever you call it, the Borg (numerous times... god, Voyager must be leading a pack of persuing borg all the way home), ships from 300 years in the federation future, etc. At least not time and time again. Once or twice? Sure. Not time and time again.

Voyager, basicly, ruined the borg for me. The borg went from the vauge menacing threat that was chilling to think about to someone who presents no more threat than a pack of angry ferengi.
 

Tsyr said:
At least not time and time again. Once or twice? Sure. Not time and time again.

*shrug* Another mainstay of fiction - wits, guile, and tenacity win out over brute strength.

Kirk won out against alien forces with vast powers - the Squire of Gothos, an Olypian god, the Doomsday Weapon. Picard stood up against the omnipotent Q time and again, as well as his crew beign the first folk to face down the borg multiple times. Time travelling borg, even, if you count movies. Sisko held off the Founders and the Pah Wraiths...

In all the other series, the characters do the same basic thing. They generally don't get by because they are more powerful, or even on equal footing. They win (and are considered heros) because they beat the odds.

This goes on to other genre shows - on B5, a small human crew is responsible for beating the Shadows (and the Vorlons, actually), the Psi Corps, and their own government - all superior forces. They do it not by being strong, but by being bright, and in the right :) On Stargate SG1, it's the Goa'uld. On Farscape the Peacekeepers, the Scaran, and countless other powerful enemies.

The real question isn't what the odds were, but if the story told about facing the odds was interesting. And that's where Voyager tended to fail, where the others succeeded. If they'd told a good story, the niggling detail of it being implausible wouldn't be an issue :)
 

Umbran said:
shrug* Another mainstay of fiction - wits, guile, and tenacity win out over brute strength.

Kirk won out against alien forces with vast powers - the Squire of Gothos, an Olypian god, the Doomsday Weapon.


Kirk only defeated the doomsday weapon because another ship captain sacrificed his life in an assist. The Squire of Gothos was overcome by other powerful alien beings. The Olympian gods were overcome by discovering their secret, and matching their power.

Picard stood up against the omnipotent Q time and again, as well as his crew beign the first folk to face down the borg multiple times. Time travelling borg, even, if you count movies.


They encountered the borg five times in TNG (if you count the movie). I'd hardly call their encounters a ringing success.

1. When Q tossed them out in space to the original borg cube, the borg pretty much cleaned the Enterprise's clock, and it was only the subsequent intervention of Q that saved them.

2. When the borg cube showed up to attack earth, it was only the fortuituous circumstance that Picard gave away a borg weakeness that allowed humanity to escape. The Federation fleet was annhilated in the process.

3. A lone borg was captured by the Enterprise, and although they caused him to develop individuality, they were still so convinced of the danger of the borg that they made sure to return him to the borg.

4. Lor led the disaffected borg against the Enterprise, and despite the fact that they were dealing with a disorganized rabble of a borg group, the heroes were only able to survive by the timely intervention of Hue.

5. A tiny force of borg went backwards in time and despite the fact that the borg ship was destroyed, they killed or assimilated so many crewmembers that they took over the ship. Only the treachery of Data allowed the borg to be defeated, and only after the crew paid a hefty price.

Sisko held off the Founders and the Pah Wraiths...


I stopped watching the mind numbing boredom that was Deep Space Nine long before these events took place, so I have no comment on them.

In all the other series, the characters do the same basic thing. They generally don't get by because they are more powerful, or even on equal footing. They win (and are considered heros) because they beat the odds.

This goes on to other genre shows - on B5, a small human crew is responsible for beating the Shadows (and the Vorlons, actually), the Psi Corps, and their own government - all superior forces. They do it not by being strong, but by being bright, and in the right :)


No, the small human crew is able to get support from one of the military superpowers in the universe (the Minbari), and virtually every nonaligned world in the setting. They form the "largest fleet in history". I'd hardly call that beating their enemy from an inferior position.

Earth is taken on with Minbari help, Psi Corps isn't an enemy of the Babylon 5 characters until Season 5, Bester was actually allied with them through Season 4, and by the time Season 5 rolls around, Sheridan is the ISA President, hardly dealing from a position of weakness.

In many cases, there is plausible help for the outmatched, or the villans had agendas that precluded using their full force on the heroes (for example, Babaylon 5, where the Vorlons and Shadows wanted an ideological victory, not a physical one) which is what makes the stories work. There was very little justification in Voyager for that, which is what made the storylines implausible.
 

I think, Umbran, I'm mostly just sore over what Voyager did to the borg... The borg, dangitall, were supposed to be FRIGHTENING. They don't scare me in the slightest now. They original borg were this vast, mancing threat... like the Zerg in Starcraft... They didn't just fight, they fought and won... and when they won, they got stronger still, and stronger, and stronger...

But now? Heck. Now I know that one light scout ship, under-crewed, with no access to the federation as a whole, is a noteable threat to the entire collective. Talk about a let-down.
 

Tsyr said:
I think, Umbran, I'm mostly just sore over what Voyager did to the borg... The borg, dangitall, were supposed to be FRIGHTENING. They don't scare me in the slightest now. They original borg were this vast, mancing threat... like the Zerg in Starcraft... They didn't just fight, they fought and won... and when they won, they got stronger still, and stronger, and stronger...

Yes, well, that change was inevitable. People loved the Borg. The Borg were the best enemy since sliced bread. We woudln't have forgiven them if they didn't give us the Borg...

But familiarity breeds contempt.

You see, they could not continue to show us and develop the borg as an enemy without given them a face. If they didn't try to give us more information, it would have turned into, "Yeah, yeah. another implacable Borg threat of the week. Whatever. Get on with it." But in giving the Borg a face, they cease to be mysterious or implacable. It was a no-win situation.

I personally think thatit could have been done better, but the results would still have been similar.


But now? Heck. Now I know that one light scout ship, under-crewed, with no access to the federation as a whole, is a noteable threat to the entire collective. Talk about a let-down.

Um, it might help to stop thinking of Voyager as "one light scout ship". The Intrepid-class starships aren't mere light scouts. They are supposed to be among "the fastest and most powerful ships in Starfleet" (quote from Startrek.com). If I recall correctly, while they weren't designed specifically to fight the borg like the Defiant, they were designed with the borg threat in mind. Don't let it's size fool you, it's supposed to be a powerhouse.
 
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